Episode 141 includes:
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How one MSP has driven huge growth over the last couple of years - what they did and why
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Which business cards have a place in your wallet in 2022?
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Plus on the show this week, a sales expert with advice to make selling much easier for you
Featured guest:
Thank you to Adam Wootton from Impact Sales Coaching for joining Paul to talk about how MSPs can make selling easier.
Adam has 20 years sales experience ranging from telesales, field sales, key account sales, key account management and leading high performance teams. He launched Impact Sales Coaching five years ago and has delivered results for large corporates and SME's spanning sectors such as telecommunications, IT infrastructure, finance, logistics, education, manufacturing, recruitment and events.
Connect with Adam on LinkedIn:
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/adam-wootton-b4607015
Show notes:
Episode transcription
Voiceover:
Fresh every Tuesday for MSPs around the world. This is Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast.
Paul Green:
It's an utter delight to have you back for another episode of the podcast. And here's what we got coming up for you this week.
Adam Wootton:
There's a mindset of, "I am a professional at what I do. Therefore, because I'm good and I'm proven, if I build it, they will come." And that's just not the case. So there's a bit of a shock or reality check. "Oh, yeah. I do need to influence. I do need to work on my marketing and I do need to sell."
Paul Green:
That's Adam Wootton. He's a sales coach and he's my guest on this week's show. Later on, he's going to be giving you a ton of advice about how to make the sales easier for your MSP. We're also going to be talking about business cards. Are they still relevant in 2022? Should you have them? And if you do, what should go on your business card?
Voiceover:
Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast.
Paul Green:
So I want to share a story with you and I appreciate it's something that as inspiring as it is, isn't something you may be able to do in your particular business. So I don't want you to get too hung up on the details of how they've done this. I want you to look at the theme, the big picture of what this MSP has done and how you could achieve the same effect in your business. So let me set some context. I run a service called the MSP Marketing Edge, and primarily that delivers marketing content and support. In fact, we make marketing easy for 650-plus MSPs around the world. But one of the things that we do within that membership is we have a small number of peer groups. So we've got some that meet up on Zoom and then we have one that meets up in real life every single month.
Paul Green:
And that meets in Milton Keynes, which is the town where I live. Actually, now it's a city now. The Queen declared it's a city just a few weeks ago as part of her Platinum Jubilee celebration. So I live near the city of Milton Keynes. And once a month, I sit down in a hotel in Milton Keynes with the members of my real life peer group. And that is one of the best days of the month for me. Half of the content on this podcast comes out of that day. I kid you not. And the members always joke because it's the same people that meet up each time. They always joke. They'll say things like, "Oh. That'll be in the podcast, Paul." And they're not wrong. Every time I write something down, it's an idea for this podcast.
Paul Green:
Anyway, we have a bunch of lovely, lovely people that are in that peer group. And I'm honored to have worked with some of them for a number of years. I've been tracking what they've been doing with their business. And it's such an honor for me, and to watch them transform their businesses and their lives, which are of course intertwined because as a business owner, our business directly affects our life. And I'm not going to name names in this because that wouldn't be fair, but there's a member of this group. Let's call him Dave. His real name is John, but let's call him Dave. And Dave was discussing his business and how over the last year or two, they've had... And I'm going to quote some direct words from him here. They've had "crazy growth". You can put that in speech marks, "crazy growth".
Paul Green:
And I asked him, what's been driving that crazy growth? And if you cut through all of the different initiatives and the different schemes and projects and bits and bobs that they've been putting together, what's really driven that crazy growth in that business is that there are three owners, three directors in that business, and each of them has taken responsibility for one area of the business. So of the three directors who are equal owners of the business, one of them has taken over control of sales and marketing, one of them has taken over control of operations, and the third has taken control of strategy, stroke, finance.
Paul Green:
So this business is... Although it's going through crazy growth and getting bigger, this is a normal size business. We're not talking here about a multimillion-pound operation. This is a normal size business with three owners that it needs to pay for. So obviously it needs to generate more profit perhaps than just a single-owner business. But this MSP is experiencing crazy growth because it has focus. In fact, just last week, we were talking big mo. Go back into episode 140. We were talking about big mo, big momentum. Well, this MSP's getting some enormous momentum going and that's because they are focused.
Paul Green:
You see, the director who's in control of sales and marketing, that's all he does. I'm sure he has various distractions that come into his life now and again because owning a business is full of distractions, but he spends the vast majority of his time focusing on the marketing of the business, generating leads, following those leads up, and going out and doing the sales. That's what he does. That's all he has to do. While he is doing that, he doesn't have to worry about are the clients being serviced properly? Because that's what the director who's focusing on operations is doing. All he's focusing on day in, day out is operations. Have we got the technicians we need? Are we dealing with tickets efficiently? Where are the problems? How can I smooth over those problems? And of course, neither of those two has to worry about the money side of things. There's someone whose job is to sit and oversee all of the money. And as part of that role, their job is also to consider the strategy. What are the areas that we should be looking at in the future?
Paul Green:
Now, this to me is a very, very beautiful setup. It's been done strategically. This isn't something they fell into. They decided to do this. And I'm sure there's been some pain for them along the way for doing this, but what a beautiful setup. In fact, what we've got here is big business thinking within a small business. Because you think about any big business and there's always some people right at the top who take responsibility for different functions of that business. And that's exactly what this small business is achieving here, big business thinking in a small business.
Paul Green:
Now, as I said at the beginning, I don't want you to get too caught up about how they've achieved this because I appreciate in your business, there probably aren't three owners, three directors. So it wouldn't be that simple for you to do that. But you can take the principle here of what they have done, the principle that each of them is able to laser focus on their particular area of expertise without having to worry too much about the other areas of the business. As I say, I'm sure they all probably have distractions. Now and again, one of them is going to take a holiday. And as we all know, when you take a holiday, that has an impact on the other directors. So I'm sure they have to dip into the other areas of the business now and again. But overly, they're able to focus just on their specific area of expertise.
Paul Green:
How could you make that happen in your business? If you don't have a sales and marketing manager or director, how can you find someone of such good quality that you don't need to manage them on a day-to-day basis? They can manage your marketing and your sales, but they don't need to be managed by you. That sounds like something to work towards. How could you have someone? Well, it's a fairly standard thing, isn't it, to have an operations director within a business looking after all of your delivery for you? How can you work towards the point where you have someone of sufficient quality that you don't need to manage them day-to-day, that all you need to do on a day-to-day basis is perhaps just check in with your two senior leaders, but spend the rest of your time just keeping an oversight on the finance and thinking about strategy, going for long walks with your dog or playing golf or doing hang gliding or whatever it is that you enjoy doing?
Paul Green:
And actually secretly working while you are doing these things because secretly, you are thinking about things, thinking about the strategy. What's the right thing for the business? What should you be doing next? How could you make this happen within your MSP? Because if you can make it happen, it will be a very powerful tool. And maybe you too could achieve crazy growth.
Voiceover:
Here's this week's clever idea.
Paul Green:
Back in episode 1, 3, 4 of the podcast, I talked about the 2022 marketing power of the 1922 marketing tactic. And I was talking about printed newsletters. Well, now we're going to talk about business cards. And just as I was getting ready to do this bit, I thought I'd Google how old business cards are. How long have they been used? So it seems that the most obvious forerunner to the business card is something known as a trade card. And those were used in the late 17th century and early 18th centuries where businesses used cards to advertise their location and what they did. I guess we could think of them as early flyers. And they were handed out in public spaces. And then during the late 18th and 19th centuries, business cards turned into the self-promotional tools that we know today. And they were made using woodcut and letter press techniques and they weren't mass produced. And that allowed businesses to give their contact details out to potential clients. That's exciting, isn't it?
Paul Green:
So this is a tactic that's been pretty much going around since the late 17th century. So here we are in the middle of 2022 and also post-pandemic. Is there still a value in having a business card? Well, I believe there is, yes, for a number of different reasons. First of all, I say post-pandemic. I appreciate that COVID is still around, but we do meet a lot more people now than we have done over the last couple of years. And even in our digital COVID-y age, I believe you should be putting something into someone's hands. Yes, you can do digital cards, can't you? There's all these digital business cards going around where you have a QR code and that transfers your contact details into their phone or however it works.
Paul Green:
But you know what? I'm a bit of an old-fashioned gal, me, and I do a physical, printed thing. Give me a good quality business card that you can put into someone's hands and you are more likely to stay in front of them. And I say that as I've got here a couple of business cards from people. They're literally in my hands now from people I met at an event I did with SuperOps a few months ago. I met a few lovely MSPs on the day. They gave me their business cards and they've been sat on my desk ever since. Listen. You hear that? That's the quality of one of the business cards I was given. It's been printed on really thick card. In fact, as I'm looking at this card... And Kayla, it's your business card because I know you listen to this podcast. It's a really, really good business card.
Paul Green:
Let me tell you what makes this a great business card. First of all, it's on thick, thick card. This oozes quality. This is not a cheap, nasty, self-printed business card that's just been run off for the sake of having some in your pocket. The company behind this has spent money. Not huge amounts of money because printing is really quite cheap these days, but the card is thick. It hasn't bent. This survived a journey back from London to home in my jeans pocket, in the back pocket of my jeans. And this is a good quality card. The printing is crisp and it's got some quite small letters on it, but it's very well printed. It's just beautiful. It stands out. In a stack of business cards, it would stand out.
Paul Green:
It's also got the basic details you need on here. So it's got the name of the person. It's got their job title. It's got the logo of the MSP. It's got their contact details. There's the website, there's their email address, and there's their mobile number. Now it does also have two other features, which I think you need these days. So it's got a QR code. And I'm not sure what QR code usage is like where you are. But certainly, here in the UK, since the pandemic came along and all the restaurants had to move over to online restaurants and apps and no one wanted to touch cash or anything like that, QR codes have become a thing. I mean, they've been around for years. They've been around for what, 10, 15, 20 years, something like that. But they've only really caught en masse here in the UK in the last couple of years. And now they have become, I would argue, mainstream. Maybe that's the same way you are.
Paul Green:
So this has got a QR code, which is great because I can just... I'm going to open my phone now, bring up my camera. Just point at that. There we go. So look. The camera immediately wants to send me to Chrome on my phone to go and have a look at their website, which is perfect. But there's something else on this business card which makes it even better, and that is a photo of the person who gave it to me. Now in this card, it's actually quite a small photo. And one of the things I suggested to Kayla for the next bunch of business cards that she prints off is that actually, the photo is huge. It's as big as you can make it. In fact, in my business card, the back of the business card is just a photo of me not because I'm a narcissist, but because I know the power of putting a photo on a business card.
Paul Green:
Here is the power. When someone meets someone else for the first time, such as you, they're not likely to remember your name. They certainly won't remember the name of your business. But they will remember your face, and they will remember how you made them feel. And this is because our brains are hardwired to do this. We are much better at remembering faces and the feelings we associate with those faces than we are remembering made-up things like names and business names. And that's because the programming in our noggins is the same programming we've had for several hundred thousand years.
Paul Green:
And back in caveman days, we didn't have made-up names and we certainly didn't have business cards or businesses. But what we did have is faces and feelings. And if someone's face makes you feel nervous or anxious or scared, then that's your gut feeling telling you to run away because that cave person's going to kill you, whereas if you see someone's face and it makes you feel happy or it makes you feel pleased to see them, then again, that's your gut feeling telling you this is a safe person and you can trust them. That's the programming we had hundreds of thousands of years ago and it's how we still work today. It's just we override that programming with some of our modern thinking.
Paul Green:
Stick your face on the back of your business cards and people will remember you more. They'll also comment on it because it's actually quite a rare thing for someone's face to be on. Just make sure it's a decent photo. This is definitely one of those where you go and get a decent photo done for LinkedIn, for your website, for your business card. You can use the same photo for all. An up-to-date photo of how you look today on the back of your business card is a very sensible thing to do. Now, even if you don't go networking on a regular basis, having good quality business cards in your bag, always, always have a business card with you, is a sensible thing to do because you never quite know who you're going to meet and when, and you've got to be ready with that business card to put it into their palm. You never know. It could become a client down the line.
Voiceover:
Paul's blatant plug.
Paul Green:
As you're listening to this podcast, if there's ever something that you'd love to discuss with other MSPs, we have a kind of a support group that's based around the podcast. It's a Facebook group and it's only for MSPs. I'm sorry, vendors. This isn't a Facebook group for you, but it's to discuss marketing and business growth issues. And sometimes we do pick up on some of the subjects mentioned in this podcast. If you want to join, just fire up Facebook on your phone, search for MSP Marketing and then go to groups, and you should see my lovely little face. Just prod me in the face with your finger and you can apply to join the MSP Marketing Facebook group.
Voiceover:
The big interview.
Adam Wootton:
My name is Adam Wootton. I'm a performance sales coach working with business owners, including MSP owners.
Paul Green:
And you are full of energy, Adam. You are absolutely bursting with energy, which is exactly what we need and exactly what we want from a sales coach. So before we talk about how MSPs can improve their sales and just do better, let's hear a bit about your background. So how did you become a sales trainer and coach?
Adam Wootton:
Yeah. I've got 20 years worth of experience in business-to-business selling. I've gone from making telephone call calls to field sales work, going around industrial sites through to then field sales, into business development management, selling into IT, manufacturing, production, as well as facilities management. Then through into key account selling, which is the global multimillion-pound type of opportunities. Then I led a telesales team. And then in the last five or six years, I got involved in the world of coaching and training and set up my own business to do that. And it's been in the best decision I've ever made.
Paul Green:
Yes. Everyone who sets up their own business says it's both the best decision, and sometimes the worst decision they've ever made. It's a real roller coaster. Before I ask you anything about selling, what's the best thing you've ever sold and what's the worst thing you've ever sold?
Adam Wootton:
Gosh. The best thing I've ever sold, I don't want to be too tongue-in-cheek about that, but it's probably my first ever sale, which was selling a pest control contract to a small industrial site somewhere in the heart of the Midlands. That was probably my best because it was the first, and the nerves were high, and the guy said yes, and it was just a snowfall effect from there. Probably the worst thing that I've sold was actually a global key account opportunity. The reason it was the worst was because we had about three days to turn it around, which was really stressful, working all weekend and that kind of stuff. We had to pull the whole project team around. We did get through to the final stage, which was good, and it progressed from there. But yeah. That was probably the worst because of the time pressures and the significance of it.
Paul Green:
Yeah. I can imagine. Life's too short for that kind of stuff. In fact, it's those kind of things where you've pulled a weekender to do something that's really 'important' in inverted commas, that you look back at it two to three years down the line and you think, "What was all the fuss about?" These things never said important down the line. So let's talk about MSPs. Now you work with some MSPs, training and coaching them on their sales. And as you and I both know, most MSPs are very happy to put their hands up and declare, "We are not good at sales and marketing." They're really good at the technical work. They're really good at customer service. But marketing and sales leaves them wondering, "Where do I get new clients?" And I'm sure that's exactly the experience that you have. Why do you think ordinary business owners who are good at doing something find it so hard to do the sales to get new clients for their business?
Adam Wootton:
I think it starts with a mindset. There's a mindset of, "I am a craft person. I am a professional at what I do. Therefore, because I'm good and I'm proven, if I build it, they will come." And that's just not the case. So there's a bit of a shock or reality check that, "Oh, yeah. I do need to influence. I do need to work on my marketing and I do need to sell." And then that statement, you said that, "But I'm not a salesperson," they such a self-limiting belief. And the more times we say that as business owners, then the more likely that's going to be the case. So I tend to find it's an inside job first, as in we need to convince the MSP owner, sell the seller before we can start to influence other people. They need to be become comfortable. They do need to persuade and influence. Coupled into that is around ethics. You can sell and should only be selling ethically. It doesn't have to be this murky world around sales. It's not like that anymore.
Paul Green:
No. I completely agree. In fact, what I say to the MSPs I work with is, "You owe it to the ordinary business owners and managers out there to be good at sales so that they choose you because you are good at what you do, right?" And of course the MSPs go. "Yeah. Great." And say, "Right. So you are better than your competitors. If your sales skills aren't good enough, then these ordinary people who don't know any better are going to pick a worse MSP than you." So I believe they have a moral duty to sell better. So if we accept that the vast majority of business owners and MSP owners don't like selling and it is a necessary evil, taking what you've said there, how do you make someone more comfortable with selling or how do you help them to become more comfortable?
Adam Wootton:
We break it down. First of all, what is selling> what is it that we're trying to do? Then we'll get into what's the growth plan of the business? Then it links into the mindset piece of, "Well, if you fail to honour and deliver those sorts of numbers or fail to articulate your value appropriately, what's the implication of that?" And think, "Okay. Well then, I won't be able to grow my business." And it's through this element of coaching really, we get them to realise, "Actually, I should be doing this." Then I get the teams to understand, "You've got success already. You've got achievement. You are highly credible to get out there and to help these people who need your help. They need your experience." And when they start to realise that amongst other things, you start to see over time a bit of a shift change before it becomes an emergency situation where, "Oh goodness. Adam, if I don't start selling and converting the next three months, I'm going to be in that load of hot water." We prevent that from happening. Convince and sell the seller first.
Paul Green:
Yes. That's really interesting. What's also interesting is you haven't yet started talking about systems and tactics and processes and stuff like that, which is quite unusual for a salesperson. Most salespeople, when they talk about sales training, jump straight into, "Here's my 15-step system and you've got to follow this." I presume you have a system or a set of guidelines in some way.
Adam Wootton:
Definitely. There has to be a... Well, I create a learning plan and a coaching plan specifically for every person, every MSP owner that I work with. And so there is very much a system, but we can get too hung up on that type of approach. Somebody will come to me and say, "Adam, I need a new sales strategy." "Why do you think you need that?" "Because we're not converting." "Okay. Now why do you think you're not converting?" Which we get down to the root cause, it's often about closing skills, objection-handling skills, but ultimately confidence. So that's why before I even start working on some of those negotiation skills, sales strategies, and so on, we start off with the mindset. It's of fundamental importance. It's an important part of being able to persuade effectively.
Paul Green:
Yeah. Yep. That makes perfect sense. And obviously, MSP sales are difficult. It's a very long sales cycle. It's a very complicated sell. It's what we call a considered purchase. So the people who are buying it think about it a great deal and there's a influence going on from friends and family and other business people. And there's a lot going off in their brain and their emotions are all in play. Do you see all of those complexities making your job harder or does it actually make your job easier if you understand what's going on with the people that you're trying to influence?
Adam Wootton:
Yeah. I become part of the business. I'm very much accustomed to working through complicated and lengthy either tender processes, or at least very least decision-making processes. And there are huge benefits for that because I'm able to test track and measure progress throughout that sales journey. So it is an important part and I think it offers a lot more value than perhaps some of those quite transactional sales, which is a couple of calls and the deal's done. That isn't the world that we operate in here. So it is a lot more consultative and lengthy, and there's a number of benefits for that.
Paul Green:
Yes. I bet. Let's talk fun about cold calling or picking up the telephone and calling people. So it's something I recommend to my MSP Marketing Edge members a huge amount, which is you can do digital marketing, you can send out stuff in the post and there's lots of things, and you should do all of those things. But ultimately, what gets you the best results the fastest is picking up the phone and following people up. So if you send them a piece of direct mail and you send them an email about that direct mail and maybe even a LinkedIn message about it, and perhaps even put a Facebook ad in front of them, and then send some more emails and some more stuff, all of this is great and it's paving the way for you picking up the phone and calling people.
Paul Green:
And of course, most MSPs don't like to pick up the phone maybe because they know they've got to dial 30, 40, 50 people before they actually get the one person that is almost ready to buy, ready, willing, and able to buy, and they're ready to talk to them. What do you recommend, Adam, to get people on the phone to make it easier for MSPs to pick up that phone and just make those phone calls?
Adam Wootton:
I think what's critical, Paul, is one of the things you've just said. It's the pre-game. It's the warm up. We don't just have to go windmilling straight in cold. We should have in this modern day and age a multichannel route to market through ads, through direct mail, email, things that you've said, but also find these people on LinkedIn. Connect first as well. Then we can start to get in contact on the phone.
Adam Wootton:
And some of the blockages for people picking up the phone is they fear the rejection. They fear the no. But actually, no, we need to see that as an opportunity because if it's a no, it's a definite no. Great. There's another 60 people in our pipeline. We can focus on who we can add value to. We're here in business for a purpose and for a reason. And then the other objective that I tend to find MSPs tend to struggle with is being able to quantify or to chunk down, I should say, the value proposition. You need to get your message over in sub-10 seconds on a telephone introduction. And being able to articulate that tends to be one of the big blocks.
Paul Green:
Yes. I can imagine. So I am going to challenge you to do exactly what you've just recommended MSPs do. In a second, you're going to get 10 seconds to pitch yourself, to chunk down your value proposition. You and I are going to continue this conversation on YouTube, but let's hear it, first of all, Adam. So give us your 10-second pitch.
Adam Wootton:
Paul, good morning. My name is Adam from Impact Sales Coaching. Appreciate this may be a sales call, but we work with other owners similar to your good selves. And as an MSP leader, we've delivered benefits, including financial returns and improved productivity. Explain to me, how do you manage your IT at the moment?
Paul Green:
Look at that. Here's my credit card. I'm in. I'm in. Adam, how can we get in touch with you? Or tell us a little bit more about you and what you actually do with MSPs and tell us how we can get in touch.
Adam Wootton:
Yeah. So in terms of what I do and how I help, it's a very informal conversation to start with. You think you need sales training or you're interested in it. Why might that be? Once I've done that kind of a needs analysis, we create a bespoke plan to work out whether it's training you are looking after, or whether it's mentoring over a predetermined amount of time. It's let's say bespoke and it's built specifically for MSP owners' needs and as to where they want to take their business. And I can be contacted as
[email protected].
Paul Green:
That's perfect. Thank you very much. And I know that you work with MSPs all over the world, not just in the UK, thanks to the beauty of video calls. Now, you and I are going to continue this conversation on YouTube with our extended interview. There's a number of things that I want to ask you about. I want to ask you about actually mentoring people and what that's like. I want to see if we can lift the lid and look inside what it's like to have a mentoring relationship with someone on something as important as sales.
Paul Green:
We're also going to be talking about how you motivate yourself. And not just you, but how anyone motivates themselves. We all have mornings where we wake up and we just can't be bothered. So how do we overcome that when we've got to pick up the phone 50 times on a morning when we can't be bothered? The first thing I'm going to ask you on that YouTube interview is about your appearance. And if you're just listening to this on the podcast, you're going to have to go and check this out on YouTube to see exactly what Adam's appearance is and why I'm questioning him about it. You can see that extended interview right now at youtube.com/mspmarketing.
Voiceover:
Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast. This week's recommended book.
Luis Giraldo:
Hey. This is Luis Giraldo with ScalePad. And a book I recommend that I like a lot as of late, is called Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail, written by Ray Dalio. It's a really interesting book that examines the most turbulent times in our history, economic, political periods and such. And it really gives us the context for understanding where we're going.
Voiceover:
Coming up next week.
Harold Mann:
I'm Harold Mann with Mann Consulting. I'll be on with Paul next week to talk about how we think the onsite IT support visit may be dead because of COVID.
Paul Green:
And you do not want to miss that interview with Harold next week. So subscribe to this podcast wherever you are listening to it right now, and you will never miss an episode. Also coming up next week, we're going to talk about befores and afters. It's how to use a case study to demonstrate progress. It's a great way of convincing prospects to join your MSP. We're also going to talk about empathy. I believe that empathy is an unbeatable marketing advantage. But how do you actually use it in a practical way? I've got a load of examples for you next week. Over on YouTube right now, we've just published our extended interview with Adam. You can see all our content at youtube.com/mspmarketing. Join me next Tuesday and have a very profitable week in your MSP.
Voiceover:
Made in the UK for MSPs around the world. Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast.
