Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the third and final of our three holiday specials. I know it's the 9 January. It's not the holidays anymore, but we do still have this final special episode for you. And you are going to love this one today because I'm going to do something that I recommend all MSPs do, but they hate it. And you know what? I hate it, too. In this special episode, I'm going to make a ton of cold calls. Paul?
[00:00:27] Speaker C: Paul?
[00:00:28] Speaker B: PaUL Greens, MSP Marketing.
[00:00:33] Speaker D: PodCast hi, I'm Derek Marin, president of Simple Selling. And we help MSPs grow with outbound sales because they got much better things to worry about. So that's what we do.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: And normally, Derek, I welcome our guests on with enthusiasm and joy and say thank you very much for joining me on the podcast. I've got to be honest, I haven't been looking forward to interviewing you at all. And you know why? You know that what we are about to do is stupid and terrifying. So let me set a bit of a backstory. So Derek and I were connected. I can't remember who connected us now, but there are various people connecting me to other people in the MSP world all the time, and I really appreciate it. And we were sat talking about this podcast, and what could you bring to this podcast that would be new because we've had loads of great people on talking about selling over the phone and selling in general. And then you suggested to me, you said, Paul, how about if on your podcast, I coached you through doing a live call? And I stupidly said, yes, you're brave. You're a brave man.
Do you know what? Okay, what we're going to do is you're going to give me some basic advice. I'm going to make a call. You're going to tell me why it was so horrendous.
I feel I should set some. Well, I'll set some context to my calling in a second.
[00:01:53] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Let's, first of all, explore who you are. So tell us about you. What's your background? What makes you the guy that's here coaching me how to do a sales call?
[00:02:03] Speaker D: This is crazy. I don't even know how I ended up here. So I've been running this little company for about five years now, and I was fortunate enough to get introduced to an MSP when I was just starting my marketing agency back then. And I didn't have, and I still don't have an MSP background or an IT service background or anything of the sort. And I have to admit that the first year of working with this MSP that's based in Connecticut with lead generation, it was a huge struggle. I tried to do what you do, Paul, with the market, the digital marketing and the content. And boy, I got my butt handed to me, let's just put it that way. And so almost out of desperation, I started picking up the phone and Tom, you know, I know the types of companies and organizations in Connecticut that you want to work with. Let me try to give some of these folks a call and the rest is history.
I still got my butt handed to me for the first couple of thousand calls probably, but I eventually figured some things out. And fast forward to today. We're working with many MSPs, not nearly at the scale as Paul Green, but with MSPs that want to grow by directly reaching those organizations that they want to sell managed and co managed services to. So we're primarily an outbound implementation and I consider myself very lucky to be doing what we do.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: So you make the outbound calls on behalf of MSPs, that's what you do?
[00:03:30] Speaker D: Exactly. We are considering some coaching services, but we're still very early in discovering whether that's an option some MSPs might like.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Okay, well, that's certainly. Well, I guess off the back of this podcast, someone hearing this and thinking, I could do some help with this. We'll give you your contact details at the end, as we always do. So some context then. So I have this marketing strategy that I bang a drum about and talk about a lot, especially with my MSP marketing edge members. But to all MSPs, whenever I do webinars or on this podcast, and if you're a long term listener to this podcast, you'll have heard this before. I talk about a three step strategy. The first step is you build multiple audiences. So like your linkEdin, your email database, the second step is you build a relationship with them. And that's done through content marketing. So posting content onto social media and then sending out educational, entertainment, edutainment emails. And then the third step. The third step is pretty much the one that I have the least experience of because the third step is commercializing the audience. And when we say commercializing, what we mean is taking this relationship you've built up with people and turning it into an appointment. And the methodology I recommend is that you go and get a back to work mum or someone. It could be your business, Derek. It could be any kind of business doing outbound calls. And you get someone else to make outbound calls on your behalf. And the goal is to just ring all of these people that you're connected with on LinkedIn and that are in your database and you're trying to basically find out, is now the right moment? Because we all know that the thing that makes the MSP sales cycle so very long and so painful is that people only buy when they're ready to buy. And it can be years. They could be with an MSP right now that they are going to stay with for the next five years. But then at the end of that five years, for whatever reason, they've become dissatisfied. And that's the moment. The moment that they wake up one morning and think, right, going to do this, we're going to switch it company. That's the day that you want to get in front of them. And the only way we know to do that reliably is either go and pay, do pay per click on Google because you're putting yourself in front of the search they're already doing. Many MSPs struggle with that. So the other thing is that you build a relationship over the phone. Now, it's all very well me talking about this and saying, hey, pick up the phone and do it. I haven't personally picked up the phone and made a sales call since about 2008 because I hate it. And I know I am the same as most MSPs I've spoken to, with the exception of Kevin Ackland. I know KeVin listens to this podcast. Kevin loves picking up the phone. He's not normal. Anthony Thackeray, these are both MSPs I've worked with in the UK. Anthony loves picking up the phone. He's not normal either. And I love you both guys, but every single other MSP on the planet absolutely hates picking up the phone. And I'm going to lump myself in with that. So, Derek, why? Why are we so scared of picking up the phone and calling people? Because we don't know these people, right? If they tell us to get screwed, it's not like your parents telling you to get screwed. These are strangers. Why is it so mean?
[00:06:32] Speaker D: I think we're just not used know. Objection. We're not used to interrupting people. And especially nowadays, I feel like most of us just, we're so busy with our work and if we're not doing that, we're looking at our phones and our devices. And so interacting with people, especially strangers, is just not something we're as accustomed to.
I think that's a huge part of the challenge of making this work is getting over having the right positive mindset and just knowing that, look, the majority of people that you speak with are not going to be interested in having another conversation, and that's totally normal. So trusting that the process will eventually reap rewards, but that it may not be on one call, it may not be ten, it may not even be 100 calls. It takes many, many attempts, often to get some progress.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: And actually that persistence is such a valuable thing, not just in marketing, but in selling as well. And far too many people give up too early. Okay, so I'm going to make an attempted call.
[00:07:36] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: What we're going to do, we're going to use the magic of editing to. I'm going to start dialing. Well, in a second, I'm going to ask you to pick a vertical and I'm going to Google that vertical in the city where I live in the UK, which is Milton Keynes. And I'm just going to dial, I'm not going to click on any paid ads, I'm just going to click on map listings and just dial. And through the magic of editing, we're going to jump over the eight or ten dials where I don't get a hold. Well, where no one answers the phone or whatever, and we're going to jump straight to where I have a conversation with someone. Yeah, got it. First things first. The scenario I'm setting myself is I'm calling on behalf of an MSP. I don't know anything about it, which is not far wrong.
And my goal, my outcome, is to see if they've got an IT company, if they're happy with them, and whether or not they're willing to have a 15 minutes Zoom with my boss, who I'm going to call Derek, you're going to be my boss for the benefit of this. Okay?
[00:08:29] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: So the first thing then is, what's your recommendation to get past the gatekeeper? So let's assume the person who answers the phone is not necessarily the decision maker. Tell me how to get past that gatekeeper.
[00:08:41] Speaker D: Your context is a little bit different, just given our time and constraints, but under a normal circumstance for us anyway, is we'll have a list of companies and the different decision makers done that research before and imported into our CRM or our MSP CRM. We're doing it on their behalf. So we'll have names to drop. So we'll say, hi, Mary, or hi, good morning, or good afternoon. Is Tom there, please? So that's a very super straightforward. You already know who you're asking for. You're not necessarily giving away who you are. The company that you're with necessarily, we recommend at least our approach to start as simple, as straightforward as possible.
In this case, though, since you don't really know, you could ask for the person who's in charge or involved with the technology over there. Something as simple as that. More often than not, they're going to say that person's not available, in which case there's different ways that you can respond. But try to follow up with something along the lines of, oh, no problem.
When might be a better time for me to reach him or her and maybe just try to gather some information of whether or not they're working with another MSP or something along those lines. So we try to just approach it that way.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Right. Let's do this, Derek. Let's do this. Let's do it. You got it.
You have the best voice.
[00:10:04] Speaker D: So which vertical are you most?
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
[00:10:06] Speaker D: Do you feel most comfortable dialing?
[00:10:09] Speaker B: I don't know.
I've worked with verticals before, but I think you suggest a random one so we can really randomize this.
[00:10:18] Speaker D: Let's see. Well, you said in your area, I'm not sure what is a big industry that is predominant in your city.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: There isn't one.
[00:10:30] Speaker D: All the above.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: You pick one.
[00:10:32] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Okay. Go on, you do it.
[00:10:34] Speaker D: Okay, sure. I guess. Is there manufacturing?
[00:10:39] Speaker B: There we go.
[00:10:40] Speaker D: Could you search for something along those lines?
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Sure. Okay. So I'm typing into Google. You've heard of that? Manufacturers, Milton Keynes. And we have some manufacturers. So here we go. I'm going to do the first call. By the way, if you're watching this on YouTube and you're wondering why I'm holding my phone sort of weirdly next to me. So my microphone is up above. Oh, my phone's actually ringing. So I normally switch my phone off when I'm on doing a podcast interview. So let me just kill that call. That's weird, isn't it? It's all going wrong today, right? I'm not going to tell you the name of the company. We're going to blank out the name because obviously we're not asking their permission. They're never going to listen to this podcast anyway. We hope not. So here we go. Derek, get ready. We are making our first call.
Oh, hi there. Can I speak to the person who does your it, please?
[00:11:40] Speaker E: Could you repeat? Who do you want to talk to? Speak?
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So who's the person who makes the decisions about your IT support?
[00:11:50] Speaker E: We have our IT department. Thank you very much.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Oh, is that an internal department, is it?
[00:11:54] Speaker E: Yeah, it is.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Okay. Thank you very much. For your time.
[00:11:57] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:11:58] Speaker E: Bye bye.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Did you hear in her voice when she realized it was a sales call?
[00:12:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: You did great.
[00:12:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:12:08] Speaker D: My only other suggestion would be, that's fantastic. That's actually why I called. And would that person be try to get a name? Because so many of our MSPs are loving the co managed opportunity. But that was great, man. You're natural. I mean, hey, you want to join us? Anytime. Anytime.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: There's sweat dripping down me. There's like a cold shiver going down my spine.
[00:12:29] Speaker D: The hardest part, actually, is all the music and the waiting. That is. I think one of the biggest challenges for folks is just not connecting all day. You're lucky if you get four or five actual conversations a day. Just think about that. The hardest part is not the objection for many of them, it's the burnout of just not talking to real people.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Okay. Right. Let's do another one. Here we go.
Oh, good afternoon. Could I speak to the person who looks after your it, please?
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Oh, they're not based on site at all. They come from head office at Runcorn.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: Oh, in Runcorn. Okay. And who's the best person to speak to in Runcorn?
Okay, that's lovely. Thank you. And I'll give him a call at your plant there. Thanks for your help.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Cheers. Bye. I got a name.
[00:13:27] Speaker D: You got a name? Yeah.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: We can't put the name on the podcast, but that's amazing. I got a name. Yeah.
[00:13:32] Speaker D: And then we have tools like LinkedIn, and there's a lot you can do. And you can even say, this person pointed me in your direction. I mean, in this case, it was a receptionist, so maybe not the best use case, but, yeah. Great job.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Right, let's do another one.
Industrial equipment supplier, this one.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Welcome to. At any time, press zero for reception, or press one if you know your party's extension. Alternatively.
[00:14:01] Speaker D: Oh, there's the other music again. A good beat.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Good afternoon. Speaking. How can I help?
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Hello, could you put me through to the person who handles your it, please?
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Yes, certainly. One moment, please.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: What was the easiest gatekeeper ever?
A few moments later.
[00:14:24] Speaker E: Record your message and press hash, or press start to contact the operator.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: A voicemail. How frustrating. I'm starting to see how difficult this is and not in someone who runs a business doing this. It must drive you crazy.
[00:14:37] Speaker D: Yeah. One of the biggest challenges, just connecting. And I wasn't surprised that, and we were going to run into this because I know the volume it takes. It'd be very surprising if you got connected with someone in a short period of time like this.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Okay, so I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to switch Tac. So as we're recording this interview, it's approaching 05:00 p.m. In the UK, which is probably the time that all the manufacturers stop work. So we're going to switch Tac, switch to a different vertical. Let's pick everyone's favorite vertical. Lawyers. Everyone loves lawyers.
No, they don't. So we're going to call a firm of lawyers. Let's go for this one. They're open for another hour and they're a family law firm, so hopefully that means they won't be too big and have lots and lots of offices. Right. Let's give these guys a call.
[00:15:29] Speaker D: Good evening.
[00:15:31] Speaker E: So, can I help you?
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Oh, hello there. Could you put me through to the person who handles your it, please?
[00:15:39] Speaker E: Let me just hear. The team is just unavailable at this moment in time. There. Would you like to take a message? I can get someone to give you a call back.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Oh, that's very kind of you, thank you, but no, I'm going to give them a call, if that's okay. Who's the best person to speak to?
[00:15:53] Speaker E: I just work in reception. I know someone does it, but I'm not sure who it is. I think they work remotely, but yeah, you're welcome to chat later when management is in the office. They'll be able to provide more information.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Perfect. Thank you. And by the way, there is no just working in reception. You are making everything happen at that place.
[00:16:14] Speaker E: We are making what?
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Sorry, no, you personally, you're making all of this happen. You're making the magic happen. You mustn't ever say, I just work in reception.
[00:16:24] Speaker E: Yeah, I don't give myself much what I deserve.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: I hope so too. What was your name, please?
[00:16:34] Speaker E: You're speaking to.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: You're an absolute star. Thank you. I'll give him a call tomorrow.
[00:16:38] Speaker E: Not to worry. Take care.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Cheers.
[00:16:40] Speaker E: Bye bye.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: A bit of flirting with.
[00:16:43] Speaker D: Yeah, great job.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Is that a good thing?
[00:16:46] Speaker D: That's fantastic. Because more than likely, because when we're setting things up, it's many calls, 5678 and you might be talking to several times. So to get him on your side or her on your side is great. It's awesome.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Okay, that's fantastic.
And this is the happiest thing I've ever said on the podcast ever. We're going to stop making phone calls because what you've seen and heard on the podcast is just a fraction of what me and Derek have just been through. We just had dial after dial after dial.
People didn't answer the phone or the IVR just went on forever, or it was just a nightmare. And I can see that this is clearly an issue for you, Derek, for you and your team, and of course for MSPs who are phony. But that also makes me think that's an opportunity because everyone's going to have the same problem. Right. So every MSP doing outbound phone calls is going to have to sit through the nonsense, the waiting, the whole music. And that means, like we were saying earlier, the persistence is the important thing. Right?
[00:17:42] Speaker D: Yeah, the volume and persistence. And it also matters to use other channels. Right. I mean, email is super important, working different. When I say working, I mean pursuing. Right. The outbound, working different contacts. So that could be the president, it could be the director of operations. It could be the one leading finance. Right. And looking for those little signals that you might get back, that there's interest when you start seeing all those opens that can kind of help you prioritize because you might have thousands of calls to make, but you have to pick and choose.
But it's volume.
A big part of this is volume.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, Derek, thank you so much for joining us on the show and putting me through hell. Your reward for this is just to tell us a little bit more about what do you do for MSPs and how can we get in touch with.
[00:18:31] Speaker D: So, you know, ultimately, we're working with MSPs that want to grow by directly targeting a certain group of accounts. And typically, these MSPs, they have a pretty well oiled, or at least they're beginning to oil their sales process. They're ready to go from, say, word of mouth or referrals, or maybe they're getting some great inbound traction with organization or content like yours, Paul, but they want that extra sniper, direct approach. So to get in touch with us, you can find us at Simpleselling Co. Co. And our contact information is right.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: There, coming up next week.
[00:19:11] Speaker C: I'm Matt Tompkins of two brothers Creative. And on Paul's podcast, we're going to talk about emotional marketing and why this matters more than facts. It is the ultimate showdown of facts versus feelings. Turns out people aren't making their decisions based on the facts. They're basing it on emotional marketing. We're going to teach you how you can leverage this to get more customers and keep those customers happy.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: So we are back to our normal format next week. And on top of that interview, I'm going to be giving you five common website mistakes that many MSPs make. Are you making these mistakes on your website? Join me next Tuesday and have a very profitable week in your MSP. Made in the UK for MSPs around the world, Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast.
