How To Attract Buyers To Your MSP’s Website

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello my friend, and welcome back to the show. This is what I've got coming up for you today. How to drive tons and tons more qualified traffic to your MSP's website. And staying on your website, we're also going to talk about loads of reasons why you should add a price estimator tool to it. Plus, my special guest today tells you what to do if your referrals have dried up. You haven't really yet got any marketing in place. [00:00:24] Speaker B: Welcome to episode 335 powered by MSP marketingedge.com Paul Green's MSP Marketing Podcast. [00:00:33] Speaker A: If you woke up tomorrow and your MSP's website had received double its normal traffic, would that actually change your business? For most MSPs, the honest answer to this is no. Because your marketing problem isn't traffic, it's qualified traffic. The right people from the right businesses, essentially the right decision makers. So right now I'm going to give you seven levers that you can pull to drive significantly more qualified traffic to your MSP's website. We're not talking vanity visitors or random clicks, but people who are genuinely more likely to start a sales conversation with you. Let's start with lever number one. Clarity beats volume. The clearer you are about who you want to attract, the easier it is to create content that pulls them in. If you, if you try to speak to everyone, you'll attract no one. But when you specialize, even if it's just in your messaging, you become magnetic to a specific group. And that's why vertical marketing works so well. When an accountant, a cpa, lands on a page that clearly talks about accountants, or a manufacturer sees content that reflects their world of production lines and deadlines, they instantly feel understood. Understood. That's the key word there, because that recognition is what drives qualified traffic. Lever number two is relevance over randomness. Most MSP websites are full of really generic service pages about IT support and cybersecurity and backup and cloud. And that content really doesn't attract qualified buyers because it doesn't answer specific real world questions. Instead, think about what your ideal prospect is typing into Google or their AI tool. Late at night, when they're worried about their business, they type in things like what happens if our server fails? Or how, how do we pass a cyber insurance audit? Or what does downtime actually cost a manufacturer? So when you create content that kind of calmly answers those questions, you attract people who are already thinking about solving a problem that they believe that they have. It's because you're talking about them and their issues and not you. That's a real key thing in website content. Lever number three is consistency. Because traffic compounds over time, one blog post won't move the needle at all, but 50 might. [00:02:51] Speaker C: 100 definitely will. [00:02:53] Speaker A: 500 absolutely will. When you publish regularly weekly blogs, weekly videos, daily LinkedIn posts that link back to your website, you just create more entry points and you stay more visible. You build familiarity. Qualified traffic rarely comes from a single piece of content. It comes from repeated exposure over time. The trick for most MSPs is to put in place a system whereby you have content going out on a regular basis. And that System does it 52 weeks a year with minimal impact on you [00:03:23] Speaker C: as the business owner. [00:03:24] Speaker A: And as a side note, if you want a system that puts content out there, go and have a look at my MSP Marketing Edge membership. It's a system that we've designed and it's trusted by hundreds and hundreds of other MSPs as a way of them getting content out every single day with with minimal amount of work for them. Go to mspmarketingedge.com lever number four is distribution. Creating content is only half the job. You need to deliberately put it in front of the right people, and that means emailing it to your database, sharing it consistently on LinkedIn, even sending out printed newsletters in the mail. Content that just sits quietly on your website won't drive traffic in of itself. Content that's strategically distributed will drive content. Lever number five is social proof embedded into your content. Qualified prospects don't just want information, they want reassurance. When your website includes reviews, testimonials and case studies from businesses like them, visitors are much more likely to stay, explore and trust what they're reading. And that doesn't just increase traffic, it improves the quality of it. Trust is everything in your marketing. Lever number six is cornerstone content. Instead of publishing dozens of thin posts, create deeper guides, genuinely help people. A proper comprehensive guide on, let's say it, for law firms, or cybersecurity for manufacturers, that becomes something worth sharing. So it keeps visitors on your site for longer and positions you as an authority and becomes an asset that you can reuse in multiple places. It's really cool stuff like that. And then lever number seven is referrals done properly. One of the simplest ways to drive highly qualified traffic is to make your website so clear and useful that your existing clients feel confident sending people there. When your messaging clearly states who you help and how you help them, your website becomes a tool. And your clients can use that tool on your behalf. There is a certain social risk that people take when they refer you. Because if the person they refer has a bad experience with you, that makes them feel bad. So the very first step is to just have a good look at your website. If it's clear and simple, that's going to give your clients confidence to refer you. But if it's generic and boring and complicated, it's the exact opposite. That kind of traffic referrals is as [00:05:47] Speaker C: qualified as it gets. [00:05:50] Speaker A: So in summary, if you want tons more qualified traffic, don't chase numbers. Pull those seven levers that create alignment. Alignment between who you want to work with, what they care about, and what you actually publish, both on your website and out there around the web. When that alignment is strong, traffic stops being random and starts becoming predictable. And you know what predictable qualified traffic is? What's going to help you grow your msp? [00:06:16] Speaker B: Paul Green's MSP Marketing Podcast okay, I'm [00:06:20] Speaker A: going to address a common complaint that's [00:06:22] Speaker C: been coming into my business in the last few weeks. [00:06:25] Speaker A: It's about this free MSP marketing map that we've now given away to hundreds of MSPs around the world. [00:06:31] Speaker C: World. [00:06:31] Speaker A: And if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see what the problem is. This thing is huge, just massive. It's a physical wall planner and it's actually double sided. So we send two out to you so you can display both sides at the same time if you want to. Because the thing is, I needed to fit in 36 smart marketing actions that you can use to take you from zero leads to new clients. But I can't do that on a little bit of paper. Which is why I need to have this great big physical, huge wall planner. The idea is that it goes on your wall and anytime you find yourself sitting there thinking what can I do to generate new leads and get new clients? You just look up and there are some specific marketing actions that you can do immediately. Do you know what? Let me tell you how you can get your hands on one and you can judge whether it's too big yourself. It's completely free. You don't pay the postage. You don't even have to put in a credit card. I'm not trying to to get you to start a subscription or anything like that. We absorb the cost of printing this massive wall planner and mailing it to you so that you and I can [00:07:30] Speaker C: start a business relationship. [00:07:32] Speaker A: So to get your free copy, go to mspwallplanner.com or if you're watching this on YouTube, just scan the QR code that's on screen right now. There's a marketing idea that absolutely freaks out a load of msps. And the funny thing is that the businesses that embrace it properly often see their lead generation jump up dramatically. I'm talking about putting a price estimator on your website. That's a smart tool which lets prospects get a rough idea of what IT support might cost before they ever speak to you. And I can almost hear the objections already. It'll scare prospects away. What we do is too complex for that. Our competitors will see our prices. And these are the same reactions that I hear again and again and again. But here's the thing. When you approach this the right way, a price estimator doesn't scare away good prospects. It actually attracts them and builds trust and completely changes the dynamic of your sales conversations. So let's just step back for a second and look at buyer psychology. Buyers hate mystery. Hidden pricing creates anxiety for them. And anxious buyers don't convert, or anxious prospects don't convert into buyers. Transparency, on the other hand, builds trust immediately. When someone can get just a rough idea of cost without jumping through hoops, that signals maturity, confidence, and that you're not hiding anything. And that alone differentiates you from most of the rest of the channel. There are some powerful psychological forces at play here. First, price anchoring. When prospects see a structured price range, they recalibrate what normal looks like. Second, pre acceptance. If someone's already seen and accepted the ballpark figure before they speak to you, you remove most of the awkwardness from the first conversation. And third, autonomy. Modern buyers want to explore privately. It's not 2008 anymore. Whether they're using AI or doing their own research. People don't want to have to talk to sales during the early research stages. They want clarity first, and a price estimator gives them exactly that. So let me give you some very practical reasons why this works so well. [00:09:38] Speaker C: It eliminates tire kickers because people with [00:09:40] Speaker A: tiny budgets disqualify themselves. It attracts better prospects because serious buyers lean into clarity. It reduces price objections because they've already accepted the range before you ever speak. It speeds up the sales cycle because you move from curious to ready much faster. It filters your pipeline so it feels calmer and more predictable. It increases engagement on your website because people interact with the tool instead of just browsing. It gives you valuable data about what prospects choose, what they avoid, and what price brackets are most common. And it makes your future content stronger because you'll start to see patterns in what buyers actually care about. There's also something else going on here. When a prospect customizes their own solution, such as choosing the number of users, the service levels add ons like backup. They become emotionally invested. They've built it. And when buyers build something themselves, they're far more likely to want it. That's really powerful. So what does this actually look like? Well, it's simple. It's a clear tool on your website where prospects pick the number of users, [00:10:45] Speaker C: they choose a service level, they select [00:10:46] Speaker A: any extras, and they instantly get a rough idea of pricing. And rough is the key word. This isn't a fixed quote, it's guidance. Just framing education if you like. And here's an important practical detail. Before you give them the rough pricing, you ask for their name and their email address for them to see the full breakdown. Now, that alone can become one of the best lead generators on your website. And if they give you their phone number as well, you call them like immediately. And I'm serious, immediately. Not in 10 minutes, not tomorrow. Now, the second you get the notification, they filled in the form because someone who has just completed a pricing estimator and volunteered their phone number is not browsing. They are ready. Now let me ask you something. If you were an ordinary business owner switching your IT support, would you contact a company if you had no idea what it might cost? Would you happily book a call with zero context? I mean, I wouldn't. And if you wouldn't, then your prospects probably wouldn't either. Transparency isn't scary. I can see why it seems scary, but it's not. It's powerful. And in a world where buyers expect clarity and speed, adding a price estimator to your website might just be one of the smartest marketing decisions that that you can make. And hey, just in case I can make this easy for you, I've partnered with best selling author Marcus Sheridan to create a price estimator just for msps. Go and have a look at msppriceguide.com [00:12:13] Speaker B: the ms.msp marketing edge member update. [00:12:18] Speaker A: So if you're a member of my MSP Marketing Edge membership, you now have access to Maze content. We release new content on the 10th of every month. So last Friday, Maze content appeared magically in the portal. It's there in the Content Content section and also in the content calendar which shows you what to publish and when. And you can access them both in the portal right now. Now, if you're not yet a member of the MSP Marketing Edge, we only work with one per area, so you can Check to see if your area is free or if a competitor has locked it. Just go to mspmarketingedge.com membership and enter [00:12:53] Speaker C: your postcode or zip code. [00:12:55] Speaker A: And if you're watching this on YouTube, you can also scan the QR code to that's on screen right now. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Paul Green's MSP Marketing Podcast. [00:13:04] Speaker A: Here's a common scenario for MSPs and it's a killer. You've been in business for a few years and you've mostly grown through referrals. You didn't actively solicit them. They just kind of turned up as a result of your great work, your care for your clients and the sheer energy that you've brought to your business. But then one day you realize it's been some time since you had a referral and, and you start to realize that the referrals have stopped. You get a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach because you realize that you have no other consistent marketing that's happening. If you're in that situation, you can relax. It happens to almost every msp. And my special guest right now is going to tell you where to get started with your marketing in this exact scenario. [00:13:45] Speaker D: Hello, I'm Sarah Nay and I'm the CEO of Duct Tape Marketing. [00:13:48] Speaker C: And it's so exciting to get you here on the show, Sarah, because Duct Tape Marketing, which is both a book and has an agency which has been around for many, many years, it was one of the very first marketing books I ever read. It's still available now on Amazon. I guess it's on Audible as well. Most books are these days. And we were just saying before the interview, somewhere in my house I have my original copy of this from like 20, 25 years ago. It's probably falling apart at the seams because I read it again and again and again when I was just getting started about 20 years ago. So, so cool to have you here on the show. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Tell us a little bit more about [00:14:22] Speaker C: Duct Tape Marketing, how long it's been running and what your story is within that business. [00:14:28] Speaker D: So we've been in business for about 30 years. We've always had specific target markets. We've always worked directly with small businesses where we come in as more of a fractional cmo. So we outline a marketing strategy for the business and then we go into a long term retainer where we're serving as their marketing leadership essentially. And we also certify and train marketing consultants, fractional CMOs and agencies in our approach as well. But absolutely everything that we do is based on strategy before tactics. And that was a core theme in John's book over 20 years ago. And so we're still holding true to that line. And I would even argue that it's more important now in marketing with the age of AI. And so my role at Duct Tape Marketing, I started as an intern about 16 years ago. I've had pretty much every role within the company over the last 16 years. And then the last, last December I stepped into the CEO seat. So I'm about a year and a couple months into the CEO role. [00:15:23] Speaker C: Amazing. Congratulations. And I mean 16 years in one company is in itself is amazing. And to rise from, you know, intern up to being the CEO is fantastic. You've written a book yourself, so obviously there's John's book, Duct tape marketing from 20 odd years ago. What's the name of your book that you've written? [00:15:37] Speaker D: Mine's called Unchained Breaking Free from Broken Marketing Models. And so that came out last year. The really, the emphasis of the book is there's a lot that's broken and wrong in the marketing agency space today. And so I believe that small businesses really should be able to take own ownership of their marketing. They should own the systems and the tools and the content that's created. And so the emphasis of the book is really about taking ownership of what you're doing and that marketing should be an incredible asset in the business that you own. [00:16:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree with you completely. There's, there's a few good agencies out there and there's a lot of rotten agencies out there. And that's the same in the MSP space as it is, I guess, in the, in the whole world. So what we're going to talk about today is we're going to, we're going to paint a real world scenario for a typical MSP and then we're going to sort of look at what you would advise that MSP to do in this scenario. So very often I start conversations with MSPs who've either listened to the podcast or follow on YouTube or LinkedIn or however they've sort of come across the MSP marketing edge and what we do. And the most common scenario is, hey Paul, we've been going three, four, five years. I've got, it's me and a couple of techs, we've grown the business on referrals. You know, referrals has been really good [00:16:51] Speaker A: for us and I thought that was [00:16:52] Speaker C: how it was going to go for 10, 20 years. And then six months ago the referral stopped. And I don't know why I didn't know I'd changed anything. But the referral stopped and we need to start doing some marketing. And marketing seems really difficult. And I'm a great technician and I haven't got a clue what to do about marketing. Where do I start? [00:17:08] Speaker A: So that's a common conversation. [00:17:09] Speaker C: I'll have that conversation four or five times a week. I know you've worked with lots of MSPs in the past as well. [00:17:15] Speaker A: So in that scenario, and particularly since [00:17:16] Speaker C: you've, you have a passion about making [00:17:19] Speaker A: sure you get a strategy right before [00:17:21] Speaker C: you jump into tactics, what would you advise an MSP to do in that scenario? [00:17:25] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I would say, first of all, it's great that you've been able to grow based on referrals. That shows that for the most part you provide a good service and clients are like you and they're happy. So that's like checkbox one. If someone comes to me and they're like, we never get referrals and we don't have great reviews online, I'm like, I don't know if you can out market that, to be honest. So the fact that you've grown based on positive experience, experiences to this point, like, I first would, you know, highlight that because I think that's a win. But I also always highlight that it's hard to rely on referrals alone, especially if they are starting to slow down. And so I'm a big believer in diversifying your marketing a little bit. You don't need to be on every single channel that's out there, but you need to at least have a few channels that are performing well for you. But instead of just like, okay, we're now going to do paid ads and then we're going to do SEO, it's taking a step back and saying, okay, who are our clients? Where do they hang out online? How do they make buying decisions? What keeps them up at night and really thinking through those things to then say, okay, what messaging really resonates with the people that we are trying to connect with and target and serve? Because you really need to understand those two things first before you can decide what channel or how you're going to approach the channel moving forward. So taking a step back and understanding your ideal clients and your messaging is step one and two. But then looking at your customer journey, and this is actually a foundational thing that we've been doing for years for clients as well. And John laid it out in his book Duct Tape Marketing, but it's looking at how can people get to know like trust, try, buy, repeat and refer your business. And why this is so important is because you can sit down and you can analyze what are we doing in each of these stages, where are gaps, where are opportunities to improve? And if you can really nail moving someone through each of those stages as they interact with your business, they're going to become repeat customers, which is really important for most people. And then they're also going to just naturally refer you, which then allows new people to move through your customer journey a lot faster. And so analyzing what are you currently doing, what are your touch points, where is your room for growth? And then that should guide your marketing priorities moving forward. It also should guide what channels you should focus on with what tactics. So again, you're not just playing the guessing game, you're taking a step back, you're doing research. You're putting a plan together that's based on who you want to serve and that's going to give you a lot more clarity and direction moving forward. [00:19:47] Speaker C: Yeah, so I completely agree with, with everything you said there, of course I do, because the book I read 20 odd years ago is the foundation for my own marketing knowledge. But it's really interesting. So today as we're talking here, early 2026, figuring out the two things you said at the beginning, which is, which is who do you want to work with? What's your ideal client profile as we call it today? And then why, why would they buy from you? What's in it for them? Which is of course your usp, your unique selling proposition. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Figuring those things out like five, six, [00:20:16] Speaker C: ten years ago was, was required some hard work. You know, it required sitting down with someone who knew what questions to ask, which directions to look. Research was hard. [00:20:25] Speaker A: Whereas these days we just fire up [00:20:26] Speaker C: ChatGPT or Copilot or Claude and we have a two way conversation with, with an AI bot that knows more about these things than we do. So of course it can, it can shape us and guide us and it [00:20:36] Speaker A: doesn't mean it won't make mistakes, but [00:20:38] Speaker C: it, but it's a hell of a lot easier than it was back then. [00:20:40] Speaker A: And yet despite that, lots of MSPs, [00:20:44] Speaker C: in fact I'd say many MSPs and I'm sure many of the other business owners, because I know you work with hundreds and hundreds of different types of business owners still jump straight into tactics. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Why? Why do we do that? Is it just because it feels like we're doing something if we just suddenly start a paid ads campaign, or we just say, right, let's do more LinkedIn. [00:21:01] Speaker D: Yeah, I do think it's just that it feels like you're doing something, like you're moving the needle, you're busy, even though I would argue you're probably not doing the right things. And so I think it's that. And then it's also, it's really challenging in marketing right now because there's all these AI platforms you should be on and then there's all these channels that you should be on. And you know, people want to have multiple touch points before they'll even reach out to your business. So there's just kind of a lot of pressure in the marketing space, I believe, to do more. And so oftentimes when clients come and they start working with us, like, they'll be like, I'm doing this, this, this, this, this and this. And I'm like, okay, great, what's working and what's not working out of that list? And they're like, I don't know, we don't know how to track it. And so oftentimes we help people put actual tracking in place based on their efforts and then set goals of like, what would make this specific thing successful or not. And then if it's not hitting the goals, that tells you either you should stop doing that thing or you should look at how you can do that thing more effectively. And so it's not enough just to create your list of tactics at the end of strategy, because that is kind of where strategy ends. But then to say, okay, if we're going to do these things for the next 90 days, what's the definition of success and how are we going to track that? Because that information is going to help guide if you should keep doing things or if you should shift and evolve to different areas. [00:22:17] Speaker C: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And going back to our scenario of the MSP owner with, you know, just a handful of staff getting started with marketing, all of this is difficult, obviously, even with those AI tools. And actually you mentioned about choosing platforms I've certainly seen, and I guess you've seen the same, is that the overwhelming choice of a few years ago is now over, over overwhelming because there is literally a new thing every day. And you know, I get 20 cold emails a day saying, hey, we can [00:22:43] Speaker A: do you a lead generation system. [00:22:45] Speaker C: And often you look into it and it's someone who watched a YouTube video and found an AI, you know, used an AI tool, and they've set themselves up as a marketing agency or whatsoever. It's Kind of crazy. So I'm, I'm seeing that all of this extra noise is actually creating more confusion. And the downside of that is that the genuine, honest business owners, like the [00:23:04] Speaker A: msps, are actually doing less because there's, [00:23:07] Speaker C: there's too much choice and too much noise. Are you, are you seeing a similar thing? [00:23:10] Speaker D: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And like, LinkedIn is another example to email. I mean, I used to use LinkedIn very heavily. I would connect with people, message people. I'm still on there very frequently, but I rarely check my messages because it's literally like outbound pitch. Outbound pitch, outbound pitch. Like AI spam. You can just like fill. You can see it all there. And so that's the same with email. I get, you know, at least 20 a day, I feel like, as well. And so it is more challenging to stand out because even if a human's reaching out to me on LinkedIn authentically, I'm less likely to check my messages that frequently because I'm just tired of it. And so it is harder to get people's attention and it's harder to stand out. But that's where, you know, I think if you approach marketing with a more authentic human feel to it and not just trying to scale with AI, there is opportunity for people to see your authentic selves versus spamming without AI or with AI platforms. [00:24:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I completely agree. I believe the AI tools are a way of taking your authentic personality and stretching it out to help you appear in more places through repurposing content. It terrifies me when, when an MSP says to me, oh, I'm going to go and use 11 labs to clone my voice or clone my video. And I'm like, please don't do that. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Because even, you know, even if we, even if we can't spot it, it's just, it's. [00:24:31] Speaker C: It's the most inauthentic thing that you can do. And actually, I think as. As AI slot gets greater and greater and greater, the actual real, like we're two real humans talking to each other. Right? And, and that, that's the most authentic thing. And I think we're going to seek that as humans. Humans, as more AI content comes out there. [00:24:48] Speaker D: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I'm not saying, like, all AI is bad for content. Like, we use it, you know, within our company, and it is good for, like, if you, for example, capture like a leadership story of a company and then being able to transfer that into different forms of written content or this podcast, I'm sure you Use AI to repurpose into clips, into blog posts. And you know, you might be using for that. So I think there is a place for AI, but where people miss is that slop component is, you know, they'll just go to AI for the ideas and they'll go to AI for the content and then it just sounds like anyone else. And so, you know, if you're using AI, great, I do think you should be using AI. But you need to always remember human on the front end. Like you need to give it insight, you need to give it direction, you need to give it your stories and then you need to edit on the back end as well. And that's where it can be powerful is it helps elevate you and your skill set and not replace your creativity. [00:25:38] Speaker C: Yeah, completely agree. I've just agree with everything that you've said today. [00:25:41] Speaker A: What a terrible interview. [00:25:43] Speaker C: We should have conflict here. We really should. Final question for you, Sarah, and unfortunately I am going to jump into a tactical conversation because I do know that that makes an easy takeaway for the MSPs listening and watching this on YouTube. You've got a couple of hundred dollars a month, that's it. You're an msp. It's the same scenario as before. Where would you put that couple of hundred dollars right now? [00:26:06] Speaker D: Couple hundred dollars a month? I would do a couple things. I would look at content repurposing and so content used to be really overwhelming to create, but can do a lot more. And so, you know, starting with recording some videos on very specific topics that your target audience needs to know about, using those videos, then to turn it into social clips and email newsletters and blog posts on your website. As long as you're doing it thoughtfully and with purpose, I think that can go a long way. And so obviously there's some costs in investing in tools to help to support you there. So that would be one area that I would lean into. And Honestly, in the B2B space, like I would focus on you creating a list of people you wanted to reach out to or connect with your ideal target market and then very thoughtfully calling them, texting them, reaching out to them as a human, because they're going to immediately see how that's different. And another one more I would add to the equation as a low cost thing is podcasting as well. I tell everyone in business that they should be podcasting because you're essentially just spending your time to get in front of other people's audience to spread, you know, word about your offerings and businesses in some cases. And so those are some low cost things that require time, but not a huge spend when it comes to marketing. [00:27:26] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And taking it right back to what you said at the beginning, if you know exactly who your ideal client is, and if we take just the podcast for example, and you do a podcast that that ideal client would be absolutely fascinated with, that's, it's a, it's, it's an easy match. It's an absolute easy match. And typically the smaller defined your audience and the more clear you are and yeah, the more narrow that is, the easier that gets. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Sarah, this has been great. [00:27:49] Speaker C: Thank you so much for coming on. [00:27:51] Speaker A: So tell us a little bit about what duct tape marketing actually does to [00:27:54] Speaker C: help MSPs and what's the best way to get in touch with you? [00:27:57] Speaker D: Of course. So as we talked a lot about in this interview, we lead with strategy before tactics. And so with all clients, you would come in, we would create an overall marketing strategy for you and then you would have the plan that you could either run with in your team internally or you could keep us on as a fractional CMO long term. And so you can find [email protected] and I'm also very active on LinkedIn. Again, my name is Sarah Nay. [00:28:21] Speaker B: Coming up, coming up next week. [00:28:22] Speaker A: Thank you for being here this week. Now, next week we're going to dive into how prospects don't really understand tech, which makes it very hard to have sales conversations with them. Right. But I have a very, very simple and elegant solution which allows you to have a technical conversation with any human anywhere on the planet in a way that they will 100% understand. And this allows you to build a relationship with them and influence them to pick you and not another msp. We'll get into that next week and [00:28:51] Speaker B: I'll see you then for MSPs around the world. Around the World, The MSP Marketing podcast with Paul Green.