Is FREE a good marketing tactic for MSPs?

[00:00:02] Speaker A: It's not just about leads, it's what you do with them. This is the show helping MSPs find leads and turn them into loyal clients. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Good day to thee and welcome back to the show. Here's what I've got coming up for you today. Is free still a good marketing tactic or does it devalue what you do? Please, for the sake of sales, put your authentic personality into your marketing. And my special guest today reveals what happens when you grow your Ms. MSP within tent. Over 12 years, he went from a startup to $36 million in revenue. Welcome to episode 322 powered by MSP. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Marketingedge.Com Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast free. [00:00:48] Speaker B: It's a big shiny word that always draws the attention of MSPs. No matter how much cash you've got, free is always an appealing proposition. Because if something's free, there's zero risk, right? So here's a question. Can you use giving away something free as a marketing tactic for your msp? And more to the point, if you can, should you? Or does it risk devaluing what you do for people? Giving away something for free is one of the oldest playbooks in marketing. I mean, right back in the 19th century, Coca Cola was giving away free samples to promote itself. [00:01:24] Speaker C: In fact, that was one of the. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Ways that that brand became so dominant across the us. Free has always been a magic word, hasn't it? It grabs attention, it lowers barriers, and it makes people feel like they're getting something for nothing. But in the world of B2B, and especially for MSPs, is free still a smart tactic? Or does it actually make people value you less? Before we decide, let's be clear on something. Free doesn't automatically mean bad. There are good kinds of free, and there are bad kinds as well. So let's start with the good ones. When you offer free value, say a helpful guide, a webina, a checklist, or even a 15 minute consultation, that's a smart kind of free. It gives potential clients a taste of what you're like to work with. They see your expertise, your communication style and the way that you think. And that builds trust. People buy from people they trust. And small risk free experiences like that are a great way to earn it. But then there's the other kind of free. The kind that feels desperate, like giving away months of support, doing unpaid audits, or fixing little things just to prove yourself. And that's where free starts to devalue what you do. Because if you make it seem like your Time, your skill and your expertise aren't worth paying for. Why would anyone believe that they are? And here's the tough truth. Once someone sees you as the free guy, it's very hard to change that perception later. You've anchored your value at zero. So how do you walk that line? How do you use free strategically without shooting yourself in the foot? Here's the test that I like to use. If it gives value but doesn't cost you much time or money, then it's good free. But if it costs you significant effort or replaces something you should be charging for, it's bad free. So, a downloadable guide that explains how to protect a business from phishing attacks, Great free. But a two hour deep dive audit of someone's network? That's not free. That's a service. No pay, no play. Here's one more thing to keep in mind in 2026. Attention is the new currency. So giving something away for free can be a brilliant marketing exchange as long as it earns you attention or trust. [00:03:35] Speaker C: Thank you very much for those. [00:03:36] Speaker B: But if it earns you nothing but extra work and frustration, it's not marketing, it's martyrdom. So is free still a good marketing tactic for an msp? Yes, it is. But only when it's intentional, limited and built to lead somewhere valuable. Don't give your time away, give away your thinking. That's what positions you as the local IT expert and gets local business owners saying, wow, if this is what this person gives away for free, imagine what I get if I paid for it. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast Still to. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Come, could you imagine building your MSP from zero revenue up to $36 million a year? That's what my special guest has done in just 12 years. And he's going to be here later on in the show to tell you what he did, but also what he'd do if he was in your position right now. Have you ever wondered what it's like being an ordinary business owner or manager searching for a new msp? The channel has made it much harder than it needs to be for them to research the available providers and pick the right IT support business for them. And that's because of a massive error that many MSPs are making with their marketing. Let's explore what that error is, whether or not you're making it, and how you can fix it to give yourself an unfair advantage. So just for a few moments, put yourself inside the brain of an ordinary business owner or manager in your town. So let's say You've had this MSP that's looked after you for a number of years, but just lately you've kind of had this feeling deep inside that things just aren't as good as they used to be. The service levels seem to have gone down, things just seem to take longer to get fixed and the prices have kind of crept up at the same time. And you're not desperately unhappy, but you do feel as though maybe you've outgrown your IT support company, or maybe even they've outgrown you. And so perhaps it's time for change at the end of your current contract. This, by the way, is how real. [00:05:38] Speaker C: Business owners and managers feel. [00:05:40] Speaker B: It's not like they wake up one morning and they suddenly decide, right, I'm going to switch over from a MSP to bmsp. It's kind of a gradual feeling that comes in and often it's their perception. It's can't always be based on reality or isn't always based on reality. It is sometimes just a perception and a feeling. You lose the client slowly over a number of years without you realizing it. That's why you have to have regular meetings with your clients. Anyway, that was a side note. Let's go back to you being that ordinary business owner or manager. You've decided it's time for a change and so you enter the research phase and you start to look at who. [00:06:14] Speaker C: Else could help you. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Now let's assume you're doing this the old fashioned way, so you're not asking AI to do the research for you, but instead you start by Googling IT support in your town. And people still do do this. Just because you and I are using AI to do the research, a majority of people today are actually still just Googling it. [00:06:31] Speaker C: I do think that's going to shift over time, but let's just go with this. [00:06:34] Speaker B: So they Google it and the results just bring up, of course, website after website after website of the same. [00:06:41] Speaker C: And as an ordinary business owner or. [00:06:43] Speaker B: Manager, your heart sinks because you don't know a great deal about it. IT support. You know roughly what IT support is roughly what these MSPs do, and you have a vague idea of how they do it, but you don't really care about the ins and outs of technical stuff. You just want someone you feel you can trust who's going to look after your staff, watch your back, and just help your business to grow. And when you're looking at all of these websites and they all have very similar images and the words are all very Much the same. And the branding is all very much the same. It feels really difficult to pick out someone from lots and lots of the same. And then you stumble across a website that's really different from all the rest. So this MSP doesn't have those same tired stock images, it doesn't have the same impersonal text. Its website is packed with personality. And specifically it's the personality of the owner. And as you look through the pages of this MSP's website, you see photos, you see videos, you see stories about this person, their staff, their family, their clients and their life. And in fact what you don't see is a lot of talk about technology, but you do see their live calendar. And you book yourself in a 15 minute video call with that person, with the owner of the business who you've just been reading about and watching videos about. And this seems like a really smart move. [00:08:02] Speaker C: Okay, story over. [00:08:03] Speaker B: Right now, as an MSP, as we stand here in early 2026, you have a massive opportunity because I see very, very few MSPs put their authentic personality into their marketing. Instead, most just look at what other MSPs are doing. They look at what their competitors are doing. And for their own website they do a version of their competitors website. Sometimes it's not even a conscious choice to do that. You do that because it feels safe. If everyone's doing this, then you should do this. And that's built into us. That kind of behavior is built into us. It's what drives social proof like reviews and testimonials. But it doesn't work in marketing. In marketing you have to do something. [00:08:44] Speaker C: Different to what everyone else is doing. [00:08:46] Speaker B: And maybe in the years ahead, you know, that kind of mentality of just copy your competitors will change. But as things stand today, you have a unique opportunity to stand out in your marketplace by being different. And the easiest way to be different is to base your marketing around you. Now this is what I've done with the MSP marketing edge and it's working very well for me. I'm not a narcissist, I'm not an attention seeker. I'm actually an extroverted introvert. I much prefer being on my own, working on my own, sitting in a quiet room. I don't get energy from big crowds of people. Big crowds of people suck energy out of me. [00:09:21] Speaker C: That's why I know that I'm an extroverted introvert. [00:09:23] Speaker B: But I understand the power of using your authentic personality as a differentiation tool. Because of course the MSP marketing edge has competitors, but no one has me. No one else can be me or compete with me. That's why I'm the face of the business. And everything about my business has me at every single touch point because no one else can ever touch that. Could you do this? Should you do this? [00:09:48] Speaker C: Absolutely, you should. [00:09:49] Speaker B: What's the very first thing for you to do? It's to look at your website and say, how can I put me into that website? Go and have a look at my site, MSP marketingedge.com. you'll see photos, you'll see videos. You go on the About Us page, you'll see my story. There's a picture of my dad on there, There's a picture of my child on there. I tell you about my life and what I do. All of this has been done slowly over, but the more of me I put into my marketing, the more benefit I get back. The more that MSPs feel like they know me, therefore they can like me. [00:10:19] Speaker C: They can trust me. [00:10:20] Speaker B: You can do exactly the same. So look at your website. Ask yourself, what's something small that I could get started with? Could you put a photo of you onto your website? Could you have a video of you on your homepage? Could you just do a bit of videoing with you and your staff, maybe even a couple of clients? Put that on the website? Could you interview your clients? Could you tell more of your story? Could we see a photo of you with your family, with your team in the local area? All of these things and more can help to put you and your authentic personality onto your website. Which of these things is the right thing for you to get started with? [00:10:54] Speaker A: Paul Green's MSP Marketing podcast still to come. [00:10:58] Speaker B: So, following on from that, imagine if prospects saw your MSP and instantly thought, yeah, I can trust these guys. That's the power of what I was just talking about. And it's also the power of something called proof points. Now, Nate Friedman from MSP Sites and TechPro Marketing has four types of proof points that you need to be using. And you'll hear what they are in our marketing minute coming up shortly. Tell me, why did you start your msp? Were you trying to get control over the work you do, who you do it for and how it's done? Were you just looking for freedom where you could generate lots of time and cash to enjoy a certain lifestyle? Or were you looking to build something massive, a true business that's going to continue thriving long after you walk away from it? Well, if it's that one, you're going to love my special guest today. In just 12 years, he's built a business, an MSP, from nothing, up to $36 million in annual revenue. And in this interview, he's going to reveal what he did and how he did it and what he would do if he was in your situation today. [00:12:04] Speaker D: Hi, my name is Efrem Epstein. I'm the CEO of Fit Solutions and we're based in San Diego in Chicago. [00:12:11] Speaker C: Amazing. So thank you for joining me on the podcast because we're going to explore today how you build an MSP from nothing up to seven figures. We're going to find out all the mistakes you made on the way, all the disasters, all the catastrophes, all the things that went wrong. And in doing so, perhaps we'll find some of the things that went right as well. [00:12:29] Speaker B: So give us, give us a brief. [00:12:30] Speaker C: Overview of your story. [00:12:32] Speaker B: How long have you had your MSP and what made you get started in the first place? [00:12:36] Speaker D: Yeah, so we started, or I started with a business partner at the very end of 2012. So it was October 2012, was the first month of business. But I had been working on, maybe I knew I wanted to get this started for about 11 months prior. So for about 11 months I was working on creating contracts, building, pricing. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Setting. [00:13:00] Speaker D: Up relationships with contractors that I could utilize, all that kind of thing. And then when opportunity finally came with the, I was ready to strike and quit my job. But I had been in the MSP space for several years prior to that. You know, I had come from internal it and then I worked for a company called the IT Pros that was in San Diego. And I was with them from the time they were about 2 million till the time they grew about 5 million. And I really loved, I loved it. I enjoyed that business. I enjoyed working with the owner and, you know, his ethics and integrity, core values, all of that I really enjoyed. I love the team. They sold in around 2009, 2010, and at that time when they sold, they sold to Konica Minolta, all covered. And I went with that acquisition. I hung around for about two years and then I had made the decision I wanted to start my own company. [00:14:04] Speaker C: That makes perfect sense. And what, just give us an idea of where, what you've done in the last sort of 13, 14 years or so. So give us an idea of what kind of size you are now. And if you don't want to talk about revenue, then, then how many, how many staff have you got? Which is always a good talk about it. [00:14:20] Speaker D: We last year did 30 million in revenue. And this year we're almost to the end of the year. We're on track. I think we're gonna end around 36 to 38 million in revenue. So some growth. As far as team members, we have 116 team members, majority here in the United States, but we do have about 10% or about 15 people in international countries. [00:14:48] Speaker C: Okay, that's pretty cool. So you've been productive then. You've, you've been busy over the last few years. And just, just for the, for the, for the sake of our audience listening to this on the podcast or watching this on YouTube, we recorded this at the end of 2025, because obviously this is going out now in early 2026. [00:15:03] Speaker B: So what would you, if you look. [00:15:04] Speaker C: Back, let's talk about the fun things first. What are the biggest mistakes you made? And it's so much easier as a business owner at the kind of the successful end of a journey to look back and put your head in your hands and say, wow, did I really do A, B and C? Because at the time, they feel like the worst things ever. But as you look back, what were. [00:15:21] Speaker B: The biggest mistakes you made and the. [00:15:23] Speaker C: Challenges that you screwed up the biggest? [00:15:25] Speaker D: Oh, man, there's been. There's been so many. But fortunately, I've got more right than I got wrong. But, you know, you always remember the ones you got wrong so you can learn from them. I think there was a few things like, so one, I think I was a little over overly confident going into it, and I wanted to pave my own way and do things differently than everybody else. And that led to a little bit overconfidence and doing things the hard way versus looking for mentors that had done it much larger, much more successful than me and trying to just copy them. So I could have shortened the amount of time it took me to get to the same outcome from, and in a lot less pain had I. Had I done it that, that way. The other thing is I didn't have good financial literacy. You know, you don't learn that in school. And so unless you have someone teach you or you actively read books, listen to podcasts about it, you don't learn it. So it took me a while to become a base level of financial literacy. And so that was another thing. Also not focusing enough on the revenue and the sales skills that I needed to bring in revenue. That, that also took, you know, a lot of years. So those are some of them. And then there's cultural things, just how I approach building the business and Adding team members. I used to run the company. I used to say much more like friends and family and now I run it like a professional sports team. [00:17:07] Speaker C: And what would you mean by that, you run it like a professional sports team? Do you mean that? I mean, with the number of staff you've got, I guess you could just about know everyone by their first name, but you wouldn't know their lives, so. [00:17:19] Speaker D: That's right. [00:17:20] Speaker C: Does that mean you're running it like, hey, we're all a team here and we're trying to do something? [00:17:24] Speaker D: I think it's more of a mindset and looking at KPIs, metrics, numbers, results and, you know, if you look at a sports team, it's, everybody has to practice together, everybody on the team must perform or you get cut from the team. That's just the way it is. It's, it's just tough. Now. You can be friends, you can even make lifelong friends on a sports team, but just because you're cool and you're a friend doesn't, isn't going to keep you on the team. Your performance is going to keep you on the team. And so really changing that versus oh, they're a cool guy, but they're not, you know, it's not 100 aligned or, you know, there's difficulties here. It just really comes down to results. And if you change your culture around the result, the outcome, not the hard work, not around the camaraderie, you can have those things, but they have to be absolutely secondary. All the focus has to be on the metric, the results, the output and the performance. And then, then all the other things can, you know, but you can do that in a positive, in a fun way. It doesn't have to be overbearing or negative. Right. A lot of sports teams have fun while they're, you know, working together, but they never lose sight of, you know, what the metrics need to be and what the wins need to be. [00:18:54] Speaker C: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So you don't go from, from, from scratch to the size of business. You are accidentally, you know, something like that has to be done with intent. Was the, was the intent there from. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Day one or did you. [00:19:07] Speaker C: Because I've interviewed a lot of successful MSPs on this podcast over the last six, six or so years. And, and often the, the story, not always, but often the story is first few years they're going along as any MSP does, growing a little bit, winning clients, going whatsoever. And then often there' the business owner gets serious and as you say, gets into KPIs builds a sales team, builds a marketing team, systemizes the business. And there's an intent to take this to 5, 10, 15 million. [00:19:34] Speaker B: Is that, Is that what happened to you? Or were you doing that from day one? [00:19:37] Speaker D: So one thing I wanted from day one, from the very beginning, is I didn't. I wanted to have a life. And if you're a small MSP owner, you do not have a life. You have your. You don't go to a restaurant without your laptop. You don't go on vacation anywhere without checking your email or, you know, being on the hook because you're probably in an engineering position yourself, right? So you might have help, but you're basically the star of the show and, you know, you have a few support people on your side, but it's not, it's not like a truly mature business. And so one thing is, I was like, I. If I'm going to. If I don't want that life, I want to be able to go on vacation. And so I said, if I'm going to build this thing, I have to at least get built as big as the company. I had worked for the IT pros, and even though I was only on the engineering side, I wasn't like, running every aspect of the business. I had that kind of programmed in my mind and I knew I could. I don't want to say I was on. I was focused there. Like, I was on autopilot. It was programmed into me. I gotta get to like 25 headcounts, you know, 5 million, something like that. So I didn't know it exactly. It was a little bit fuzzy, but I was fully focused on that. So every time we get more clients, more revenue, I was hiring, adding to the team. Like, I was just stacking those bricks to get there as fast as I could. And once we got there, then it started to change because I realized that one, I had a lot bigger goals for myself, and if I stayed here, I wouldn't achieve them. But also, I couldn't give my team opportunity to growth. They wouldn't get to their goals right. So, you know, part of my mission is to impact lives touched by technology. That's impacting our clients and their businesses, but it's also impacting. It means impacting our employees with their personal, professional, financial goals. I can't do that if I can't create opportunity. And the only way for them to get that is to leave the organization, which is what I don't want. So I was like, always forced into growth and I Think every MSP is in that same, same position. You must grow if you want, you know, people want raises, people want promotions. If you want to be the person to give that to them, you have to grow. It's literally the only way. So that was, that was a, you know, a big driver. And then I started getting more clear on the goals, like where, where we really want to go over, you know, 100,000 in annual revenue. So we got really, really focused on those goals and making annual goals to get us towards there. [00:22:39] Speaker C: Yeah. And if you look back at the first, let's say the first five years, because I think for the majority of MSPs listening to this or watching this on YouTube, they're still in that sort of sub.3 million. That's kind of where we aim this podcast at. So if you look back at those first couple of years when you were building yourself up to your first 3, 4, 5 million in revenue, what were the big things that made the biggest difference? So was it getting the marketing right? Was it getting the sales process right? Was it, was it having a great product? What were those blocks? [00:23:08] Speaker D: Yeah, so that's a big, you know, that $3 million mark, it's, it's a breakpoint and it is where a lot of MSPs just cannot get through that. So that's a position as the owner that you're probably starting to make a little bit more money. You know, you're, you're, you're starting to be a little more comfortable. And if you're taking that and, you know, now you're trying to grow, you kind of hit this wall where you really have to kind of do a couple things. One, you still need to be frugal and you need to hire more staff and you need to replace yourself. I would say the vast majority of MSP owners that I've met come from an engineering background and they're actively involved in client delivery, client service. Right. And I had to make kind of around that time, a very hard decision. It was actually a pivotal moment in our business. But the decision, as silly as it sounds, is that I was not going to do any more engineering. I was. A ticket came in, I was not going to work it. There was a fire that was going to arise. One of my other team members had to do it. And unless it was the absolute last resort where we were going to lose a client, I would under no circumstance, other than that, touch a ticket. And I had to prepare my team for that, and we had to talk that out. And I set a date and it was very difficult, but I had to do it because as long as I was engineering, I was a lid to the business. So the business could not outgrow me without me making that conscious decision that I had to raise my lid so that the business could keep growing. That's a really hard thing. You have to let go, control. [00:25:06] Speaker C: And in doing so and removing that lid, did that explode the growth of the business? Because I know a lot of MSPs are so fearful of letting go. They, they keep themselves as sort of third, three third line or third plus a bit line. So they're just keeping an eye on it. And even if there's a service desk manager and even if there's an account manager and a handler and all of. [00:25:24] Speaker B: This, they're always just lingering there in. [00:25:26] Speaker C: The background, which is natural, isn't it, when you, when, when that's what you do and that's why you started the business in the first place. [00:25:31] Speaker B: So was that, that must have been hard for you. [00:25:33] Speaker C: But did you see the reward that, oh wow, this, this business is really taken off and actually I can just focus all of my time on growing this business and not worrying about the clients. [00:25:42] Speaker D: Yeah. So that was, that was a really big thing because now I can focus more on revenue and more strategic things that I needed to do. But to be able to let go, there's a couple of things that I learned from mentors that you have to have. So, one, you have to have very clear written processes that people are trained on and are expected to follow and you have to have KPIs that you can measure and you need your team to report up to you so you don't have to micromanage them. So the expectation is that you present me the KPIs every week. I don't go look for what they are and then come to you and ask questions. If I have to micromanage in that way, you're not the right person for the job. So that's a training thing. There has to be processes that they can operate in and then you can have the information you need as a business over to have that oversight and, and make decisions. So, so that's, that's one, the, the, the process really has to come even before you add people, a lot of people, what they, what they do, they think about it this way, they think about, I'm going to add people, then I'm going to build process and then I'm going to be profitable. Right. You have to do it the other way. You have to be profitable first. So you got to figure out how to make your product and process profitable. Then you build process and then you add people. People should be the last thing, not the first thing. So people usually add the people, then build the process and expect profitability and it don't work out. You got to be profitable first, process second. Now add the people. So that was really big. That allowed me to get to kind of the next break point. And the next break point came at that like 7 million, 8 million $9 million mark. And what happened then is I realized financial literacy, financial discipline and my ability to sell was what was keeping the business going further than that. [00:27:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:49] Speaker D: So then I had to overcome. Those were the next things I had to build myself on. [00:27:54] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I love that. So here's a question for you. Let's say you sold your business tomorrow and you woke up the day after and you had this crazy idea that you'd like to start again and you'd like to start an MS.3 from scratch. A whole brand new marketplace. You don't know anyone and let's say you've decided to do it on minimal budget rather than investing a lot of that cash you've just made from selling your business. [00:28:17] Speaker B: So what would you do if you. [00:28:18] Speaker C: Had to give yourself sort of a 2, 3, 4 point plan of this is what I'm going to do to get started and dominate a marketplace quickly. What would you do? [00:28:29] Speaker D: What I would do very first thing, build your contract. Otherwise, you know, obviously get your LLC and all of that. Build your contracts. You could probably whip it out with ChatGPT or copy another one, something like that. Figure out the pricing of how can I be. How many hours will it take me to service and pricing and get your first customer. You don't have a business until you got your first customer and they've transacted money. There's nothing more important than getting that first customer and then building from there. You don't need a website. You don't even need freaking business cards. You don't even need a cool logo. Everyone puts that stuff first. Yeah, it's helpful. Get your first customer. Your first customer is not going to come through your website anyway. They're going to come through a relationship that you've built and networking you've done. So get your contract in line so you're legal and freaking sell and get a. Get that first customer. That's the by far the number one thing you need to do to be able to pay, you know, to have revenue as fast as possible. And then deliver and don't fail on the delivery. Right. Do a high quality, make sure that they're raving fan and then you can build off of that. So in fact, what's funny is I, you know, I told you that I spent 11 months building the company and I was building contracts built, doing pricing, figuring this all out. And because I had no one to show me when that first customer came, we didn't have a website and we didn't have a logo yet. We hadn't gotten to it. That's usually the very first thing everybody does. It is, it's like, oh, let's make our website, let's make our logo, blah, blah, blah. So when the customer came to me, they kind of knew me from, from the past and they wanted to work with me because of I had done right by them in the past. And so I told him, I said, hey, I don't have a website and I don't have a logo yet. But I've been working on this for some time. I have my contracts, I have my llc, I have everything in place. I have my team in place. I even have the guys that I'm going to be, you know, part of my team to give delivery. We just hadn't gotten to the marketing piece yet. And they were like, okay, no problem. I signed them up and that was my, you know, my very first contract. $5,000 a month. That was 2012. So that was for me, a very, you know, very good thing. So that is the number I would say you need a customer, sell your business is worthless and nothing and just an idea until you get your first customer, then it's worth something. [00:31:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's great advice and I think I'm a marketing guy, right. So, so I would absolutely do the website stuff first. [00:31:10] Speaker B: But you're right. [00:31:11] Speaker C: Get, get some revenue first, then figure all that out. And I think a lot of MSPs would figure out the tech stack and they would figure out the how to do the service and what ticketing and all of the PSA and all of that stuff. And actually you're right. Get the customer first and then figure all of that stuff along the way. [00:31:25] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:31:26] Speaker C: Cool. Is when you've won the customer, you've got to figure that stuff out. [00:31:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:30] Speaker C: So you, it makes sense to put all of your time and attention into getting, getting the customers and then, yeah, everything else sorts itself out. [00:31:36] Speaker D: Yeah. It forces you. I'm a big fan. I've done it the other way. I did, fortunately, the first time I did it right Where I sold first, delivered second. Right. And then I've also done. The mistake when I built my cyber company is I put all this time and money into really building it and then trying to sell it. And it was a losing proposition for many years. It ended up working out as sheer determination. But it had. I could. I go back, I could have done it so much better all I would, you know, not all. Doesn't mean I'm not giving it foresight. But if you're an ethical, moral person, you are going to deliver on what you promise. Yeah. So I'm an ethical, moral person and if I commit to doing something, I'm going to do it. So when somebody signs a contract with me, I will at my own personal expense and detriment if I sold it wrong. I'm going to deliver on that contract no matter what it takes. Because that's my reputation and my reputation is gold. So if that's you, there's no problem. Don't overanalyze the situation. A lot of, a lot of people are analyzers. You gotta sell it and then deliver on it, you know, and I know that sounds kind of crazy to a technical person. That's a high analyzer. But, you know, you can spend years tinkering and trying to make the perfect product and then you try to go to market and you're like, why is no one buying it? It's just. It's just not how it works. [00:33:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Well, look, this has been a fascinating insight into your journey. Thank you. We are out of time. The final thing I want to ask you is I know that you are interested in acquiring other MSPs if, you know, for those people that are at the end of their journey and they're ready to make an exit. So just tell roughly what, what would make a good MSP for you and what's the best way to get in touch with you? [00:33:29] Speaker D: Yeah, so you can get in touch with me if you Google my name. I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, our website, FitSolutions Biz. I would love to connect on, on any platform that you want to connect on. And we are looking to scale. I've, you know, we're not PE or private equity money or VC capital. So just me and I have been trying to find other business owners that have similarly aligned cultures. And I found two that wanted to exit the business and I brought them on and their people on and it was a really good experience. And so if there's someone else out there that aligns with me in some way. I would love to have a conversation. You can find me on my LinkedIn Ephraim epsign with a baby or Instagram Kingsphere is my handle. I'm also on Facebook and Twitter or X now and and the rest of it. So look, look forward and our website. [00:34:30] Speaker A: Fitsolutions Biz Whole Green's MSP Marketing Podcast. [00:34:35] Speaker E: The Marketing Minute hi, I'm Nate Friedman from MSP Sites and here's a quick way to win more MSP clients. If a prospect doesn't know you, like you and trust you, they're not buying. So that's where proof points come in. This is the hard evidence that says yes, we can deliver. And there are four types of proof points you need. The first one is functional. These are impressive stats like a 99% customer satisfaction score or 20 plus years in business. There are social proof points as your community ties like sponsoring local events or donating to charities. There are economic proof points, things like your measurable impact that you have on your clients, for example, saving a client 10 hours a week or driving big revenue growth. And finally, there are credential proof points. These are awards, partnerships and recognition that actually mean something to a business owner. Pick two to five in each category. Put them everywhere. Prospects see you and watch trust and sales skyrocket. [00:35:32] Speaker A: Coming up, coming up next week. [00:35:34] Speaker B: Thanks for listening this week. Next week we're going to be talking about how to top a specific sector. If your MSP has ever wanted more lawyers as clients, then you have to listen because next week we'll talk about what lawyers are looking for in an msp, how to reach them, and how to convince them that you are their perfect choice. [00:35:53] Speaker C: See you then for MSPs around the. [00:35:56] Speaker A: World around the World the MSP Marketing Podcast with Paul Green.