MSPs: Hiring A Salesperson Is A Mistake

[00:00:00] Speaker A: All right there. Welcome back. And this is what I've got coming [00:00:03] Speaker B: up for you today. [00:00:04] Speaker A: Why you shouldn't hire a salesperson even if you hate selling. Five cool marketing ideas from other sectors. And if you've ever thought of outsourcing your operations, my two special guests today will tell you how to avoid all the mistakes. Welcome to episode 341, powered by MSP marketingedge.com, Paul Greens MSP Marketing Podcast. Can I be honest with you about something that might be just a little bit uncomfortable? If you hate selling, hiring a salesperson feels like the obvious answer. You get someone else to do the bits you hate, right? Problem solved. Except it's really not. And I've seen enough MSPs go down this road to know that for most of them, it ends in frustration, wasted money, and a salesperson who quietly stops hunting for new business within about three months. Let me explain why the average MSP does no more than about two sales meetings a month. Two. And before you think that sounds shockingly low, it actually makes complete sense when you understand the business model of MSPs. Because MSPs don't generate enormous volumes of leads because most of them don't do a lot of marketing. And that's a kind of obvious thing to say. But more importantly, when you do win a client, that client pays you all the monthly recurring revenue for years and years and years, sometimes a decade or more. So you, you don't need to win clients every week to run a very healthy, profitable msp. In fact, you might not be able to onboard them. You might not have the capacity to onboard a new client every week. You just need to win the right new clients at the right time consistently. And that might be for you, one every month, or two every month or something like that. But here's what that means for hiring a salesperson. If you're only doing two sales meetings a month, what exactly is a full time salesperson going to do with the other 150 odd hours? Because new logo sales in an MSP is not a full time job. Not unless you're a reasonably large business and you have a lot of sales activity going on. And a good salesperson who's sitting around not selling is going to get bored, demotivated and expensive very quickly. So msps think, okay, yeah, I'll get them to do lead generation as well. But asking a salesperson to generate leads is like asking, I don't know, a network specialist to build a PC. And sure, they may be able to have a go at it, but it's not what they're good at. Lead generation and going out and meeting people and closing sales are two completely different skill sets. With all of the marketing jobs that need to be done within your msp, you need different people to do each of those jobs. So bearing that in mind, msps then think right, okay, so if they can't do lead generation, then I'll get them to do account management as well. That seems to fit. They can look after the existing clients and hunt for new ones. And yes, that kind of sounds logical, but 95 times out of 100, it'll end in disaster. And here's why. Account management is a genuinely enjoyable job. You're talking to people who already like you, they're already giving you money, you're already solving problems for them, and they already trust you. These are nice conversations sorting out little small problems, conversations about the future of their business. Every everyone enjoys an account management conversation. New logo sales is the complete opposite. Until you get into the process with someone, a lot of it can be rejection, cold audiences, long sales cycles. It's having to build trust from scratch over and over and over again. So if you give someone both of those jobs, of course they're always going to drift towards the easier one, which is account management, every single time. And not because they're lazy, because they're human. And that means that your existing clients get lots of lovely attention, which is great. But on the flip side, your new logo business pipeline is quietly running dry. So again, I believe that these have to be two completely separate roles done by two separate people. And I believe that with every fiber of my being. Account management is one job. New business development is a second job. They require different skills, different personalities, different different metrics and different conversations. Merging them is almost always a mistake 95% of the time. So what do you do if you genuinely can't stand selling and you really want to just get someone in and get it off your plate? Well, first of all, let me push back slightly on the premise, because even if you hate it, you're almost certainly more effective at it than any salesperson you could hire, full stop. Because you know your business inside out. You carry the credibility of the founder, which means when you walk into a sales meeting, prospects know they're talking to the person who actually runs the place. And that matters a lot more than you think. I know several MSP owners whose entire contribution to the business now is A driving growth and B doing the sales meetings, literally two, three meetings a month, and everything else the Technical work, responsibility for the technical work, the account management, all the operations, all of the admin is handled by their team. They're brilliant at sales and because it's pretty much all that they do and they don't have to worry about the fuss of everything else, they channel all of their energy into winning new clients and driving growth in the business. That's it. And often they find that doing the selling is much more enjoyable when you can take your time and you don't have to run back to the office to do any second or third line support. But if you genuinely need or want someone else to do it, the smart answer for most MSPs is not a full time salesperson, it's a part time one. Let's call them a fractional salesperson to use the modern lingo. So maybe this is someone who is semi retired from a successful sales career, so they don't need or want to be busy all day every day. They want to enjoy their life, but they also do still want a little bit of a challenge, something to do, maybe a couple of afternoons a week. Someone who's happy with a couple of meaningful meetings every month and doing the follow up. They're happy with the decent basic for just working the few hours they do, and they're happy for a good commission when they do close that new client once a month or whatever it is. It's kind of like a market of mature people in their 50s, on their 60s, semi retired, but with a huge skill set and a huge experience. You know, this mature person market is real and it's underused. It's massive in fact. But you've got to go in with realistic expectations. The key is knowing what you're hiring for, keeping the role honest for you and for them about what the volume of work actually looks like. And remember the golden rule, never ever mix it with account management. Paul Greens MSP Marketing Podcast I got a direct question for you. Yes, for you. Do you yet have a copy of my free marketing Wall planner? It contains a bunch of marketing actions for you to kickstart your your lead generation and you can get one on your office wall completely free. You don't have to pay for the planner, you don't even have to pay for the postage and there are no tricks. I'm not trying to get you to start a subscription or anything like that. What I'm trying to do is to start a business relationship between you and me. And you never know if you've got my wall planner on your wall, maybe down the line. You'll go on to buy something from me one day, or maybe you won't. It doesn't really make a difference to me. I'm doing this to help you as well as promote my business. At the same time. It's a real win win. So if you want one of these marketing wall planners completely free, just go to mspwallplanner.com or if you're watching this on YouTube, scan the QR code that's on screen right now. Here's something that you might not know about me. I love looking outside the MSP world for marketing inspiration because sometimes the best ideas for your business come from somewh completely different. So after reading a load of ideas, I got my little AI chum Claude to do some research for me. And together we've been looking at what other B2B service sectors do to win clients right now. In fact, I found five ideas that I think you can genuinely swipe and adapt. Let's go. First up, law firms. Here's something smart that a lot of law firms do very well. They publish what are called client alerts. These are short, punchy pieces of communication sent to their existing clients and prospects whenever something changes in the law that could affect them. So it's not a newsletter, it's not a blog post. It's a short, urgent, specific message that says, hey, here's something that just changed and here's what it means for you. And the reason this works so beautifully is that it's genuinely useful. It arrives at the right moment, and it positions the firm as the expert that was watching out for the client before the client even knew that they needed watching. Sound familiar? That's exactly what you can do with cybersecurity alerts or new threat intelligence or government guidance updates like we were talking about earlier. Anything that's changed in your world, that matters to your client's world, send them a short human client alert, not a marketing email. And watch how differently it lands. And by the way, even though we call it a client alert, you could send that out to your prospects as well. In fact, you. You must send that out to your prospects. Number two, accountants, or CPAs. Now, accountants are famously conservative about their marketing. They're not exactly known for bold personal branding. But the most successful accounting firms have figured out something really clever. They niche down or niche down, and then they write a report. Every year they publish something like the State of Construction finance report or the annual benchmarking report for dental practices. Something that's packed with real data from their own client base or from publicly available figures. And then they put their name on it. And that report then gets shared at conferences, it gets referenced in articles. They can send it out to every prospect in that niche or niche and it is quoted back at them for years and they've become the authority, especially if they update it year after year after year. The MSP equivalent to this is kind of obvious. Could you publish an annual state of it security report for small businesses in your area or a cyber readiness report for your chosen vertical once a year, real data, your name on the front. I mean that is a huge credibility weapon. It's a lot of work, but that's why other MSPs wouldn't do it. You could be the only one that does it. Number three, financial advisors. Now, financial advisors are obsessed with what they call the annual review. Mine does it with me, does yours do it with you? Every single client, every single, every year, no exceptions. They get a proper sit down conversational these days on video call, I suppose, a formal review of their situation and a written summary of what was discussed. So on the surface that sounds like basic account management, but the genius here is that it's also marketing because every one of those annual review meetings is an opportunity to introduce a new idea, a new upsell or an additional service, or just ask for a referral. And, and this has happened to me almost every time I meet with my financial advisor, I end up either switching to a higher level product that they sell or buying something new. And actually I'm pretty happy with that because I feel as though they are thoroughly looking after me. And actually what's happening is that my advisor is constantly planting seeds for future growth. So MSPs who do this, who do a proper annual review, a structured strategic technology review, are doing the same thing. And you know what though? In my experience, a large proportion, maybe even the majority of MSPs still don't do these strategic reviews with all of their clients consistently. If you want to steal one idea from the financial advice sector, make this the one that you steal. I know it's a lot of work, but you'll be surprised how many projects and how much extra recurring revenue you generate. Number four, management consultants. So these kind of consultants are very good at one specific marketing trick, which is writing a white paper or a framework that they then name after themselves. So here are some famous ones from big consultancies. You probably haven't heard of these, but you've got the Boston Consulting Group matrix, You've got the McKinsey 7S framework. These things have been taught in business schools for decades, and they keep pointing back to the firm that invented them because they named them after themselves. Now, most MSPs aren't going to create the next management framework, I grant you that, but the principle is powerful if you have a unique way of approaching onboarding new clients. Or maybe you have a specific methodology for how you handle cybersecurity reviews. Give it a name, brand it, put it on your website, call it Your MSP Name 5 Step Secure Start Process or the MSP Name Tech Health Scorecard or whatever fits your personality. When something has a name like that, it feels proprietary and proprietary feels premium and then Number five Recruitment Agencies now this one might surprise you. Recruitment agencies live and die by relationships, and the smartest ones have a very deliberate tactic for keeping those relationships warm. During the periods where they're not actively placing a candidate for a client, they send what are called Market Insight updates. These are just short notes to their clients and prospects that say things like candidate availability in your sector is tightening right now because of XYZ or salary expectations for for software engineers have shifted by Y percent. So none of it is a pitch. It's just genuinely useful information and it keeps the recruiter top of mind as the intelligent connected expert who understands the market. So you can do exactly the same thing. A short monthly email to your hottest prospects, your dream 100 prospects that says here's what's changing right now in the cyber threat landscape, or here's what we're seeing right now in businesses in your sector getting caught out by it's not a pitch, it's just an insight. And when they're ready to switch msp, whose name is already in their head, it's going to be yours. By the way, have you noticed how many of these ideas are centered around adding value, creating information, or packaging information in a way which is really useful to the people you most want to speak to. This is a great way to build a relationship. So five ideas from five very different B2B sectors. Client alerts from law firms, annual research reports from accountants, structured annual reviews from financial advisors, branded methodologies from management consultants, and market insight updates from recruitment agencies. All of them are things your competitors are almost certainly not doing, and all of them are things that you could start doing this week. The Ms. MSP Marketing Edge Member Update if you're a member of the MSP Marketing Edge, don't forget that at any time you can talk one on one to a member of my team to get direct help with your marketing. And we are the only marketing service at our price level that will let you talk one on one to a knowledgeable human at any time, as often as you like. We do have members who use this actually a couple of times a month and we are delighted with that because getting your marketing right isn't just about having a clear marketing strategy and marketing content to implement that strategy. We give that to our members, of course, but we also give them unlimited support to help them implement it. It's so important. By the way, if you're not yet a member of the MSP Marketing Edge, we have two memberships, one for B2B marketing and another for winning co managed IT contracts. And with each of them we only work with one MSP per area. You can check to see if your area is free at MSP marketingedge.com membership. Just enter your postcode or zip code on that page. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you can also scan the QR code that's on screen right now. Paul Greens MSP Marketing Podcast have you ever thought about outsourcing your tech work? Maybe it's something you've considered in the past, but perhaps you've heard some horror stories or you're worried that your clients will notice and it could affect their relationship with you, or you just don't know where to start. Well, you I have two special guests today and they know so much about outsourcing, they literally wrote a book about it. It's a book that's launched this week. Let's dive in right now to find why outsourcing your technical work could be one of the smartest growth moves you ever make. [00:16:33] Speaker C: Hi, I'm Mark Copeman. You'll know me as a prolific writer of a massive four books and my fourth book, Offshoring Secrets Revealed, is released [00:16:43] Speaker D: this week and I'm Peter Bell. I'm the brains behind the operation. Not really. That's Mark. I'm the ideas and the history and the knowledge behind the book. [00:16:52] Speaker B: You guys are hilarious. You really are. It's so wonderful to have you both on this podcast. I know you've been working so hard together on this book and we're going to explore today what this book is and also everything that you guys know about offshoring because it's such a massive subject that comes up so often when I'm talking to MSP's Mark. You haven't been on the show for three. Three years. Which, which is kind of strange because you and I chat all the time and It. And when I looked up. [00:17:15] Speaker A: When were you last on? [00:17:16] Speaker B: I couldn't believe it's. It's that long. So you need to write more books so we can get you on more often. Pete, you were here October last year. It feels like you've become a regular now, so it's, it's great to have you both here. [00:17:26] Speaker A: So you, despite the fact that Mark, [00:17:28] Speaker B: you're in the UK and Pete, you're in Australia, you. You two have collaborated pretty well with, with this book. I mean, how difficult is it writing a book when you're literally opposite sides of the. [00:17:37] Speaker A: The globe, to be honest? [00:17:39] Speaker D: Paul? [00:17:39] Speaker C: So I, you know, I've continued the series, you know, I know one of your most favorite books that you refer to on a pretty much hourly basis is my, my first one and second one, MSP Secrets Revealed. And I love, in all seriousness, canning knowledge, extracting knowledge from people who have got experiences, who've got, you know, huge amount of understanding of a particular industry and trying to spread that knowledge to the masses so that everybody can learn from it. So when Pete and I have been working together for a number of years and it was strange because so often he'd throw something quite random into a conversation and the room would stop and go, wow, really? That's actually really important and really interesting. But he would assume that that's just common knowledge. So what we've done is to try and extract that what he thinks is to be common knowledge and can it in the book that is released this week. [00:18:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's such a, such a clever thing to do. And I do love your other two books. Whenever I'm writing my own content for LinkedIn and I get stuck and can't think of anything, I literally reach for your books, Mark, and, well, you know this already and I just steal ideas that you slaved over for hours and hours. So thank you for that, Pete. Obviously you've fed this knowledge into Mark's brain for the two of you to output it into the book. What's your background with offshoring then? Tell us a little bit about your story. [00:18:57] Speaker D: Yeah, so my brother and I, we started an MSP in 1994, so quite a while ago now. Still got the IT business today. And 15 years ago, we couldn't find staff, so we hired our first two employees in the Philippines. And from there on we saw there was a need and a requirement for businesses around the world to get into that market. And we made it simply for them to. For staff to find good employers and for good employers to find Good staff. And that's essentially how we got into it. I'll just correct you on a point. I thought it was hard work for Mark to write these books as well. Until I wrote this book with Mark and realized he just sits there and records it all and then plays with the words afterwards. It wasn't as hard a process as I thought it was going to be. But he makes it look, he makes it look good. [00:19:43] Speaker B: And actually there's nothing wrong with that. That's the secret of a great writer. In fact, Mark, you're in good company because there's a, there's an old UK author who I think is dead now called Barbara Cartland, who wrote romance novels. And apparently she, she would write them walking her dog on the beach. So she would take out a, an old style Dictaphone and she would just walk for two hours every morning and write, write her books that way. So yes, Mark, I just compared you to Barbara Cartlin there. And you're welcome. You're welcome. [00:20:08] Speaker C: Which is a, which is a first. It is a first. But I would, I would say before you get into the offshore and pool, if anybody does want to write a book, a great way of doing it is to sit down, structure some stuff out and interview that expert. And Pete and I did this over a couple of nights, sat by a pool. Yes. It was all structured in advance. A couple of beers, something to eat. And I just listened and asked questions. And it's amazing the effectiveness that that can actually create. [00:20:35] Speaker B: I love that. That's just such a smart way of doing that. [00:20:37] Speaker A: So let's jump into offshoring itself. And Peter, from your experience, and obviously [00:20:43] Speaker B: you now work with a lot of MSPs, helping them with offshoring. [00:20:47] Speaker A: What are they scared of when they [00:20:50] Speaker B: come into it and they're thinking about hiring people? You know, is it the fear of, is it about data loss? Is it about someone's going to be doing something they shouldn't be? Is it, how do I know that [00:21:00] Speaker A: my team are doing stuff? [00:21:01] Speaker B: Is it, Is it all of those and other things? [00:21:03] Speaker D: I think the first one that I'd say, and this will come as no surprise to most people listening, is a lot of owners and managers of IT companies are control freaks. They like to control every aspect of their business. And they're worried that when they do hire staff offshore, no matter where that is, that they're going to lose some of that control. And that is the case with some programs, not the case with other ones. And I think that's the first step is just giving up a little bit of control and a little bit of their time going into knowing that. You put a little bit of extra hard work in at the start, but the rewards that you reap over time far outweigh the effort that you put in to get started. And I always liken it to the first time somebody did a bungee jump. Their heart and their head told them different things. One said, go ahead and do it. The rope is safe and you'll land okay. And the other went, what happens if not. It's just that first step. It's just the first step on a journey. Not everybody's ready to take it. And it's got to be the right time and the right person and the right setting to do that. And part of writing the book was to give people knowledge that they don't have now, so they're making more educated decisions and are more comfortable to take that first step. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I guess you could, for the number of years you've been doing this, you must have seen MSPs that have moved into a different stage of growth and have been able to grow faster because they, they have that confidence. They've done the bungee jump 50 times, and so doing it another two, 300 times is, is. Is less scary for them. Is that how that tends to work? [00:22:36] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. I'll just give you a quick example. We have a customer, still a customer today. Small IT business only hired one or two people, but his wife was a bookkeeper, and she saw what her husband did and went, maybe I can do that. She now has 15 bookkeepers with us. He still has two IT people, but the wife now has 15 bookkeepers. So she was able to see somebody else take that first leap, that first step, and go. I think there's something in this. There's a model in this can work for me. And that's the key to it. Having the confidence to take that first step. But being with somebody who's there to catch you. No different. I've got three kids, 6, 8, and 10. No different to watching their first steps. You want to hold on to them. You don't want to let them go, but you know, you need to. But you're there to guide them on that path. And the sooner you do that, the sooner you let them take the steps, the sooner they can walk and run. And I think that's, you know, life is the same as business in that example. [00:23:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. So, Mark, you, you came into this project knowing a little bit about outsourcing. But I'm. [00:23:36] Speaker A: What would you say are the most [00:23:37] Speaker B: surprising things that you've discovered along the way while writing this book? [00:23:42] Speaker C: For me, So I worked with Pete for three or four years now I'm a part of the business. And I think the thing for me about offshoring, outsourcing, they are two different things is I guess I went into this thinking it's all about cost savings, it's all about how can you save money, how can you squeeze that bottom line? And actually it's about so much more than that. And that is what has completely opened my eyes. Why I really love working in the business and I really enjoying the work that we're doing is because actually it's about dealing with the issues that people have around recruitment. And certainly you'll know here in the uk, Paul, and certainly listeners across the us, Canada and so on, it's incredibly hard to find the right, not only the right skilled people, but the people with the right sort of attitude as well. And I think the whole concept of offshoring and outsourcing, for me, it provides you with options and choice and when you do run out of options locally, and as Pete saying, it's about taking first steps and opening your mind and perhaps not being that control freak, it gives you so many other possibilities. Sure, there are some cost savings down the line, but actually it's way more than that in terms of what you can get if you do take these first steps with a company like ttt. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So looking at the book itself, what are the, what are the most useful parts of that book or the things that you think MSPs are most likely to tell their friends, tell their other MSP friends about? [00:25:17] Speaker D: I'd say anything between the front cover and the back cover, [00:25:21] Speaker B: very good. [00:25:24] Speaker C: For me, it's, it's a practical guide. It walks you through, through Pete's conversation, the conversation I have with Pete, through the war stories that he's seen the problems and the issues that people have gone through by doing this in the wrong way, setting about it in the wrong way, perhaps working with a less than reputable partner to do this, but. But also actually not doing it right from a cultural perspective and so on. So it's a guidebook. If I'm honest, Paul, there's no one specific thing I think someone will go, oh, that's, that's the pot of gold there. It's about the, as I say, the stories of how people have done it badly, but also the stories about people who've done it successfully as well. So it talks about the cultural aspects. It talks about, you know, how to interact with your team. It talks about how to treat your team like they are onshore. You don't have an offshore team and onshore team, you have a team. And so there's a whole bunch of different tactics in there to give yourself the best possible chance of success. And for me, it's about as. I love this phrase. I wish I'd invented it, but it's around shortcutting experience. I love that as a concept because you could waste weeks and months and years of your life and throw away a huge amount of money or read the book and make a decision whether it's right or wrong for you. [00:26:49] Speaker B: Yeah, got it. That makes perfect sense. And on that that note, do you think that there are a set of MSPs that offshoring won't be right for? You know, are there almost a set of circumstances where it just doesn't make sense to have staff And Peter, perhaps you should answer this one. [00:27:04] Speaker D: Yeah. And leads into the last answer that Mark gave. Also, I think there will be a percentage of people that will read this book and then decide it's not right for them. And to me, that's just as good as those that decide it is right for them. Because I believe that it's right for everybody at the right time under the right circumstance. And I think that's the problem, that some people do get into this with the wrong idea in the first place. 9 out of 10 people that come to us come to us with one word in mind and that's growth. They can't grow their business, they can't grow their knowledge. It's not. They come to us with the word savings. It's the word growth. So I think if this encourages people to have a better understanding, and I strongly believe in educating, not selling. They're very different techniques and I think one gets you a quick fix. It's your sugar fix, which is selling to people. And I think the relationship driven education model allows you a better relationship with your client and a better understanding. So as much as I would love to see TGT Global get sales from the book, that's not the purpose of it. The purpose is to educate people. So they either do or don't. And if they do decide to do it, they go on it with their eyes open. They understand that it's not a quick fix. It is an overall transformation of their business. And I think that will then help people make better, more informed decisions and help them, you know, run their businesses in a better way. Because at the end of the day, most MSPs around the world run by technicians or run by small business owners and they have the knowledge that they have. This is a way in which, as Mark said, they can get experience from somebody else. And everything that's in the book is a real life. That something has happened, a real life example. There's no theory behind it. It's just a practical guide to what I've seen in the Philippines and Sri Lanka over the last 15 years. [00:28:57] Speaker B: Love it. I love it. [00:28:58] Speaker A: I love it. [00:28:59] Speaker B: When someone creates something that is instantly, oh, that's obvious, someone should have done that. And creating the guide that's, you know, we can, we can. For Those watching on YouTube, they'll see it's not a very thick book. It's not like a 15,000 page book. It's a simple however many pages, Mark, I'm sure you'll, you'll tell us and you flip through your copy. However many pages book. It's that simple basic guide to educate yourself about. These are the things you need to be aware of when, when you're offshoring. And it's really interesting there that you're talking about the repositioning, Peter, of it not just being about growth, but that transformation of the business. So the book is out this week. [00:29:34] Speaker A: I believe it launched yesterday. [00:29:36] Speaker B: Mark, if I'm, if I'm correct, where [00:29:38] Speaker A: can we get it? [00:29:39] Speaker B: Is it all the obvious places? Amazon, all of that? [00:29:41] Speaker C: Well, it's available from all good bookstores. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Airport? [00:29:44] Speaker C: Actually it's not. It's available on Amazon and it's available in paperback and on Kindle. And I think we'll probably do an audio book as well. If you know a good voiceover artist, Paul, please do let me know. [00:29:56] Speaker B: I think Ian Luckett's available for that one. Maybe not, maybe not. So thank you. And Mark, for anyone, you were saying about earlier about extracting information from people, if there's someone who's listening to this or watching this and thinks, actually I'd like to do a book. [00:30:11] Speaker A: What's the best way of getting in touch with you? [00:30:13] Speaker C: Yeah, you'll find me on LinkedIn. You've just searched for my name. And I was pondering whether I would consider doing this for somebody else. But Pete's my favorite. It would be hard to do it for someone else. But in all seriousness, I'm always happy to provide advice and guidance. So you'll find me online. Do get in touch. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Thank you, Mark. [00:30:30] Speaker A: And just actually, just tell us what the title is again. [00:30:32] Speaker B: For anyone that's just missed the title [00:30:35] Speaker C: of the book, you'll find it as Offshoring Secrets Revealed. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you so much. And there's another source of content for me for LinkedIn. I appreciate that as well. Peter, let's just finish off with you. So obviously you've been running TGT Global for some time and you've got this wealth of of knowledge. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Just tell us briefly what you DO [00:30:53] Speaker B: to help MSPs and what's the best way to get in touch with you. [00:30:56] Speaker D: Yeah, so when I was on your podcast last year, we were Techno Global team and obviously we rebranded in November. That's what Mark and helped us with our rebranding. Essentially, we help simplify offshoring for all businesses, specifically MSPs, which is our DNA. You can jump onto tgtglobal.com put in the cost calculator, will help you understand the cost savings, will help you understand the process and how it can help your business. But don't listen to us. Jump on the site, look at the videos from the customers around the world that have attributed great success to their business through their offshore program. So tgtglobal.com jump on LinkedIn. Peter Bell, you'll find me there. Happy to chat with anybody like I did with Mark. In one night, 35,000 words. He told me that I spoke. Happy to have a conversation anytime. [00:31:43] Speaker A: Coming up, coming up next week. Thanks for listening or watching this week. Next week we're going to talk about something that lots of MSPs do, but it is fraught with danger. What is it? It's copying other MSPs marketing. And I understand why people do it. It seems safer if you copy what someone else is already doing. But what you don't know is whether what they're doing is working or whether it's actually just wasting their money. Let's delve into this next week and I'll give you a much better plan than blindly copying other people's marketing. See you then for MSPs around the world. Around the world, the MSP Marketing podcast with Paul Green.