MSPs: How to get help if you're struggling

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to this special episode of the podcast. This week we've joined together with thousands of other podcasters around the world to take part in something called Podcast Thon. We're giving up this episode to promote a charity of our choice and you're gonna love the charity that we've picked. It's called 404 stress not found. It's a new organization that's aimed at helping MSPs to cope better. And here's my special guest to tell you all about it. Powered by MSP marketingedge.com Paul Greens, MSP [00:00:31] Speaker B: Marketing Podcast hello, I'm the founder of 404 Stress Not Found. My name is Paul Croker and thanks [00:00:38] Speaker A: so much for joining me on the podcast. Paul, you and I have known each other for, it must be what, nine, ten years, something like that? It's been a long time. It has been. And bizarrely and what has sort of created this special episode today is I bumped into you and your wife Gemma at Barcelona airport like back in autumn, fall last year. Now we had actually both been to MSP Global, so it's not like we were just randomly flying into Barcelona, but we had a great chat outside the airport. I was very hungover, I remember that. And you were, you were a bit more bright eyed and bushy tailed than I was. [00:01:11] Speaker B: I think I just had a coffee as well, which probably helped. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes you had. Which is a dangerous thing at 2 in the afternoon. But, but there we go. So, and we started, we started talking about what you're doing with 404 stress not found and I realized this is the perfect thing for, for this special episode. So let's start right at the beginning. So just first of all. Well, actually let's find out about you. So just tell us, give us the sort of the brief version of your story in, in terms of the MSP that you run here in the UK. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Sure. So I started a company called 18it about five years ago now or thereabouts off the back of exiting a pan European space company which is all very cool. So when we talk about rocket science, I know what that used to look like and what we do now over here is very different but I take those lessons and basically create them for MSPs and people in the tech space. [00:02:00] Speaker A: That's really cool. And you can actually say it's not rocket science because that's what you used to do. [00:02:04] Speaker B: And I do use that quote when I talk on stages. Yes. [00:02:07] Speaker A: So you should, so you should. I would, I mean I couldn't even get into a rocket facility, let alone be a rocket scientist, but that's. That's pretty cool. So. And you've. You founded this thing called 404 stress not found. So how, how long is that been in your life? And we'll explore sort of how you created it. [00:02:24] Speaker B: So it's been a thing in my. Rattling around in my head for about a year or so. It actually was born out of an idea I had when I was going around various conferences. Obviously I've bumped into you at several of those as well, which are great, but they are transactional in terms of those roi. People are talking about tech. We're not really talking about the squishy bit, the human element in those conversations and latching onto those things, really. So it was that, that was the original concept idea was to have something which is focused on the people getting to know us as, as individuals and having a place where we can kind of talk about things. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So what have you actually created and how does it benefit MSPs? [00:03:05] Speaker B: So I've put together. When did it start? Beginning of 2025. We ran the first event in Bristol here in the UK. We ran the second one in Birmingham in the UK, then we went to Brighton, London and we finished up in Newcastle. And over the course of those events, what we did, it was kind of a voyage of discovery. They mutated slightly, but the essence was the same. We were getting MSPs or people working in the tech sector together, both corporate IT and SME it. They might be business owners or they might be tech leaders, or they might be people on the tools, so to speak. We don't care about the job titles and the roles because the mental health doesn't either, so neither do we. So we've morphed those events as we've gone through and my wife came to one in Brighton, which is great to have her there because her background's in SEN special education as well and dealing with people with new diverse skills at university. She said, paul, we've got these great sessions going on, but we've got people that are automatically now opening up and kind of bearing a light into, into some of the challenges that they've got. We need to look after those people as well and be able to have them so they're ready to, ready to perform after they leave our event and the following day. So we brought an online platform into play as well. So there's a portal now that people can use for free. The events are free to attend as well. Because I don't want barriers to entry with this. And we're running as a not for profit organization with donations and stuff. So we're looking for companies, organizations that can donate funds to us as well. We're registered what we call a cic. It's a company interest, a charitable interest company at the moment in the uk. But the plans are to make it into a fully fledged registered charity. [00:04:54] Speaker A: I love that, I love that. And you know what? I think everyone at some point has an idea like this, don't they? I've had an idea for a cause rattling through my head for 20 years, but I've never acted on it. So genuinely bravo to you for actually doing not just, you know, taking the next step, but having, having a goal and a vision. And I know we have, we have loads of vendors that listen to this podcast and watch our YouTube videos. So those vendors, please, hands in your pockets and we'll tell you where to go and find the details of this shortly. And you know, if you can support that, I think that would help Paul with this mission. So you're helping MSPS with their mental health. And as we stand here, you know, early 2026, that's a perfectly acceptable thing for you and me to talk about in public like this. And yet 10 years ago, maybe even five years ago, it was, it was somewhat less acceptable to talk about, especially within the channel. And yet, as you and I know, and most people listening to this or watching this will know, the channel is absolutely the place where we need to be talking about mental health because it's predominantly male and it's predominantly, lots of, lots of men sitting on their own in rooms, on their own, you know, with, with all of the issues that that causes. So do you, do you feel that this is, this is the time for an initiative like this or do you feel like it' almost overdue? [00:06:10] Speaker B: It's definitely overdue if I'm honest. The people that I've spoken to, msps, industry experts like yourselves and others have said actually this is, this is, this is really interesting. Thank you for starting it and being the tip of the spear as I call needs it needs people talking about it. We need people going on stages, at events or just talking, raising their hand up, saying, you know what, I'm struggling at the moment with this stuff and that's okay to do that. We seem to think that when we, we ask people how they're doing, we've got to say how busy we are, how good everything is. Business is good, it's booming, it's going really well. We've got all these busy things going on on. The rest of it was when I step away or turn away or when I get home, I've got my head in my hands because I've got other things happening potentially outside of work as well. It's not just inside of work. It could be family, it could be friends, it could be other things that are muddying the waters and I have to deal with that and it's. How do I deal with that? And all the stuff I've got going on in work as well. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when we, when we talk about mental health and you know, the example you just gave there, if someone that's perhaps struggling with one area of their life, which maybe not be their work, but obviously it's going to affect their work because we're humans, right, and we have feelings and those feelings permeate into everything. Do you, do you see that? It is because we're talking about it more these days that people are more likely to say, oh, actually I'll go and join something like this, or conversely, to get involved with something like this and maybe go to one of the events, even though actually things, things, things right now for them would be great, but they want to keep things that way and perhaps support other people. [00:07:44] Speaker B: It's a great point you make there, Paul, actually. And I've been talking with people who are struggling themselves, so they come to find ways in which they might not have thought about or to share their experiences, to see if they can help others. Because as you know, the channel in the industry is very, it's very sort of community minded. In lots of these places, people that go to events and conferences want to help others and learn themselves and they're curious. And I think that last part, the curiosity bit, really sort of comes to play here as well. Because this isn't just for people who might be struggling or having challenges. What if you're a manager or a leader of some description, wouldn't it be great to spot telltale signs in your colleagues or friends or peers who might be struggling or having a challenge at the moment? So we're, by coming along, being engaged in this, in this new community that we've set up, people can share those experiences, share those ideas, but also gain some knowledge and experience. I mean, I mentioned earlier, we've got the online platform, the second tier on from that which we're hoping to bring out in the not too distant future, actually has courses on there as well. So we're looking to Pull in experts, industry experts who are subject matter experts in their own right, in mental health, in the challenges that this presents, where they can advertise their courses and some of that money will come back into running the charity. So it's almost like an Amazon market place for, for their stuff. But it's down to the individual people there say, oh, I like that course, I like the way it's set up. Or that resonates with me. Let's, let's explore it. But I think those sort of things and are important really. We want to raise the bar on the education level around it as well. [00:09:19] Speaker A: So would you say the challenge for someone who is struggling a little bit is, is the challenge kind of recognizing that they're struggling or actually doing something about it? Because we all have updates and down days, don't we? And that's, that's again, a normal part of being a human. But, but do you find that sometimes people have down days and down days and down days and they don't realize that actually there's a pattern there and they need to do something about it? [00:09:42] Speaker B: I think there's a. Probably a bit of all of that present, really, and it can impact people differently because we're all wired up differently, we're all set up slightly differently and have a different lens on, on the world and how things are. And that's okay. But I think you have to be that first point to go, something's not right. I'm not myself, whether that's you saying that or for, you know, my personal experience. I went out with some friends who I've known for years and years and years, and we hadn't caught up for a while and they've said to me, they took me aside each, each of them, as for them, in total, over the course of the evening and saying, hey, what's going on? Is everything all right? [00:10:17] Speaker A: Like really all right? [00:10:18] Speaker B: And they don't normally do that. So I knew something wasn't quite right when they were asking that. And for me, that was the start of really I uncovering, do you know what? I've got some stuff going on which I need to address. And that was the start of my personal journey. So, yes, it really starts with, you need to kind of understand yourself that something's not quite right. You might not have the answers or might not be really wanting to fully explore it. But just to say, yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not my normal self is always a good starting point. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I guess, well, let me Let me make this a question rather than assumption. If, if you are very much alone, and by that I say, you know, I live on my own, but I have my 15 year old here and obviously 15, you know, kids, especially teenagers, they know when you're not quite yourself in the same way, you know, when they're not quite yourself. But I don't live with my partner, so we live separately. So. So I kind of rely on my child, weirdly to be the mirror, the reflection of if, you know, if she'll say, wow, you've been a real grumpy. I won't use the exact word she uses, but. Because they're swear words. But you've been a real grumpy person, you know, for like all week. And that can, that itself can be a bit of a. Oh, have I, you know, I hadn't realized. So, for people, do you find that people perhaps that don't live with a partner or don't have kids or, you know, or certainly maybe post Covid six years on where, you know, are there perhaps people working for msps or within the tech industry who are still working from home and actually, you know, going back to the office never happened for whatever reason in their business and that, that's perhaps not been to their detriment because, because they're, they're on their own, predominantly. A lot is. I guess it's this in all of these scenarios, isn't it? [00:11:55] Speaker B: Absolutely, yes, absolutely. So again, it's, it's all relevant. There are cases, unfortunately, of people who didn't cope well during lockdown and unfortunately they're, they're not with us. So that's what we're trying to avoid, is we want to avoid a place where people feel there is no other option for them. There's no one listening, there's no one there they can talk to or share an idea with. Some people, as you said, work on their own, live on their own, and that's their life. That's how they want to be in some cases, but not in all cases. But I think sometimes you do need to have somebody there to talk to or to reach out to. So we're trying to create that safe place, that inclusive space where we're not looking at rois, we're not judging people, we're just here to listen where we're not medical experts, so we can't say to you, oh, yeah, this is the problem and that's what you need to do. And there's some tablets and some. No, no, no, no. We're a Peer to peer, buddy, buddy system is the way I describe it where that arm around the shoulder listening to you or helping you if and when you need that. Sometimes people just go, do you know what? I just want to go and hang out for a bit. That's fine. Come and do that as well. It's not like you got to come and bear your soul necessarily. People come to these, these meetups and get something different from it. So that should be. Is an entertaining story. I'll keep it short, give you the highlighted version. We had two people come to the Birmingham meetup and they've known each other for over 25 years. They both came out afterwards at the end of the night and they said, my goodness, I've just learned something new that I didn't know about that person before. And they both said it to me separately. So for me, that's part of the golden nuggets in this is even though you might know the people, we see people at events or conferences. It's a different type of place because we're talking and listening for different things. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I love this. So I have to ask because we have a very international audience watching our YouTube and listening to the podcast. Obviously you're based in the uk, as am I. Do you have plans to expand this out to the U.S. canada, you know, other countries around the world? [00:13:59] Speaker B: I'm really glad you asked that, Paul, because yes, we do. It started in the uk. Yes, I'm, I'm a crazy Brit, shall we say? I have, we've got contacts and friends across the world. I've had people reach out to me from the Netherlands. There's two cities in the Netherlands that want to run this. There's two cities in Germany. We have multiple places in the US and Canada, Singapore and Australia. So I've already got people who are tier who we're being lined up with. You want to run these kind of in person meetups in their countries and I'm sure there's plenty more as well because the people that I've spoken with and listened to have said we haven't [00:14:38] Speaker A: got anything like this and we need something like this. So if you're interested in, in putting this together in your. Your part of the world, we will give you Paul's contact details pretty shortly so you can get in contact with him. Paul, let's finish off with some specific messages to specific people. So let's start first of all, because obviously this, this podcast and the YouTube videos are aimed at the owners and managers of MSP. So let's let's talk to people who have staff who are, have people that they're responsible and let's, let's, let's talk to the. Well, you're going to send a message to them about two different things. So first of all, if they're struggling, what should they do? And secondly, if they see or suspect that a member of their team is struggling, what should they do? [00:15:20] Speaker B: So if you're an MSP owner and you're listening to this podcast and you think that this is interesting, or you've got challenges or you've had challenges before or you think you might have some challenges, it's a great place to come along. We'd love to hear from you, get you to get involved. Please do come along to the in person meetups we've got. We're looking to reach out to conferences as well. So if you're going to conferences in the UK or in the US or in other countries, look out for the 404 stress not found banners and logos. We're looking at having a place at international conferences where there's a quiet room, a breakout room where you can go to and reset if you're new or diverse and it's too much for you. But the best thing to do really is to sign up. Follow us on LinkedIn and sign up on our website, which is 404stressnotfound.org and [00:16:12] Speaker A: for those MSP owners who, who are looking at their staff and you know, you were saying earlier about some KPIs and tickets and you know, we're all caught up in delivery and especially MSPs because it's a stressful job. But for those MSPs that perhaps in the evenings are reflecting on their team and thinking Dave's not quite being himself for a while, what would you recommend that the best thing to do in that situation is? [00:16:35] Speaker B: That's a great trigger point. So if we listen and hear to our team members and suddenly they sound a bit different, there could very well be something going on there. In fact, more often than not, there probably is. So we want to speak to those MSP owners who have got members of the team who, who might be having challenges or they're not sure how to, how to cope or what can I say? What can't I say? I don't want to get my sort of my head bitten off or whatever it might look like. Please, again, reach out, speak to us. Follow us on our LinkedIn page. Connect with us. We've got people, we've got a board as well. We've also put in place a board of directors and the idea behind, behind that is that the fact that we have multiple people, you can provide information and advice as well. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that, I love that. And just a sort of a final targeted message I guess is for employees who don't have the responsibility but also don't have the control over the work that they do. So I guess it's the kind of the same messages and it's gonna be very similar answers I guess. Paul, A. If they're struggling, you know, can you give some reassurance that everything you do is confidential and that it's a safe place to reach out? But also if they see the MSP owner or their manager and the boss they're working with not being themselves, I guess also that would be a similar thing of reaching out and chatting to you guys to see how you can help them. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Absolutely. So the, let's, let's try and sort of put some, some actions on this for people to listen to and pick up on. The best thing to do is to follow our LinkedIn page and then sign up to our free platform which is off of the 404 stressnotfound.org website. It's free to join, there's no costs on that at all. It's safe, it's secure by default. Has to be. I work in cybersecurity so we care about that as well. And then our in person meetups when we're having these meetings we operate what we call Chatham House rules. So that's basically saying that when people are talking about their experience with their information, it's sensitive. So we need to respect that. And we also, I also say to when we, when we start the meetings in person as well, ask questions, be curious but be respectful of what people are saying because sometimes people will want to open up, sometimes they're not quite sure and it's going to take them a little while to do that. That's all. Okay. But we're here to provide a safe and inclusive space in everything that we do, whether it's online or in person. [00:18:53] Speaker A: I love this. Congratulations on starting this, Paul. I think you've done an excellent thing and I appreciate it's a group effort and you know, you nudged it into existence and this feels like something that will just grow and grow and spread and you know, we'll be talking about this in four years time, in 2030, which sounds scary that that's only four years away and we'll be, I think, you know, I can see that this will become something that just keeps going and keeps going and becomes something huge. So well done, well done for setting it up. Just, just. I know you've mentioned it like five times already, but just for the, for those people that tend to skip to the end of things, just tell us again, the website, the LinkedIn. Oh, and also, what's the best way to get in touch? So for someone that wants to help or give you, if we're a vendor with, with, you know, with funds or some kind of funding that, to help you spread this word, what's the best way to get in touch with you? [00:19:40] Speaker B: So the best way to get in touch with me is via my LinkedIn profile. My LinkedIn profile is Paul Croker UK. Off the LinkedIn search bar, you'll find me. I've got a bright pink background. Talk about doing it differently with a cup of tea and some rock and roll. Some very easy to find the link. There's a LinkedIn page, offer that as well. So join up and follow that. But please just, just make, make the connection on LinkedIn. Let's have a chat, let's have a discussion. Love everybody to be involved in some form or another. It's only possible by pulling everyone in the community on board with this or as many people as possible, because it is. It's for the community, by the community. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Coming up, coming up next week. So it's back to the normal format next week and we're going to be talking about five ways to delight your existing clients without spending a penny. See you then for MSPs around the world. Around the world, the MSP Marketing podcast with Paul Green.