MSP's Ultimate Guide To Winning Construction & Property Clients

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey there and welcome to the show. Here's what I've got coming up for you Today. We're doing one of our famous deep dives, this time into the construction and property sectors. Also talking about how to market your MSP if you're a one person band. And my special guest today reveals the psychology of why your clients are so susceptible to cybercriminals and what you can do about it. Welcome to episode365 powered [00:00:26] Speaker B: by MSP marketingedge.com Paul Green and MSP Marketing Podcast [00:00:31] Speaker A: okay, let's start by going deep on two sectors that do often get grouped together a lot and yet they actually have different buying psychology. We're talking construction and property, or of course, if you're in the U.S. we're talking real estate. We're going to look at both what makes them attractive, what makes them difficult sometimes, and how you need to adapt your marketing for, for each one. Let's start with why construction is such an attractive vertical. So construction, I mean, it's massive, right? It's. And it's chronically underserved by it. If you go out and do a lot of research or get your AI friend to do some research for you. 92% of construction firms have reported difficulty filling open positions in 2025. And the productivity in that sector has grown, you know, literally just a couple of percent over the last couple of decades. So it's a very flat sector. And around 45% of construction organizations have no AI implementation at all. And most of them are years behind other industries in just basic technology adoption. So that combination. So a huge sector, chronic understaffing and poor technology maturity for some MSPs, that's exactly the kind of thing that piques your interest, right? And I'm including the entire construction supply chain here. So not just talking about the main contractors, but also subcontractors, architects, structural engineers, civil engineers, all of the specialist trades. They might have different names in your marketplace, but they all pretty much do the same thing. And they all share very similar underlying technology pressures, even though they're all doing different jobs in a construction project, which is pretty exciting. So if we look at the specific pain points in construction, their single biggest issue is distributed sites. Because a construction firm isn't just one office with some people sitting in that office office, it's likely to be a head office, multiple active job sites, all of which have got different connectivity and different access needs. And then there's different people coming and going constantly and there's lots and lots of contractors. So there's different people coming in all the time, going around different sites. It's actually very complex, especially for a bigger business. So getting secure, reliable access to project data consistently across all of that complexity, well, that's pretty difficult, right? And often they're attempting to do that without dedicated support, without a genius like you helping them. You've got to add into that then workforce churn, because construction teams expand and contract with project cycles. So they're constantly onboarding and offboarding users and they're managing who has access to what. It's a never ending thing, I would imagine. I don't know, I don't work with construction people, but you could imagine that amount of, you know, in and out and change and contraction stress. It just creates a lot of IT work. And that's a good thing for you because without proper process, that's creating huge gaps for them. I mean, software wise, there's gaps. Security wise, there's definitely gaps, if you look at that. Let's go back to software. Construction firms from our research do rely on specialist tools. They have project management platforms, they have estimating software. Of course, they've got building information, modeling systems, ERP integrations, CAD tools, all of that kind of stuff. And your average generalist MSP is probably not very well equipped to properly support all of that. And that means that construction firms, I believe, are probably crying out, out for an MSP who completely understands the specific software that they run on. You can see that there's potentially an opportunity for you here and you've got to add in as well. Compliance, insurance requirements, I mean, they never get easier, do they? Right. Compliance and insurance always gets harder and tighter. So firms working on larger contracts or firms with enterprise clients are being asked to demonstrate that they've got documented proper security. And that of course includes their cybersecurity. That's a large part of that. And these days they often have to prove that before they're even allowed to bid, which is a new pressure point that they didn't really suffer from a few years ago. And that's a great reason for a construction firm to talk to an msp. So how do you position yourself to have conversations with the leaders of construction companies? Well, as with any vertical or sector, you lead with the language that they use. And never tech talk, because construction leaders don't lie awake at night worrying about technology for its own sake. But they do worry about missed deadlines, you know, stalled jobs. They worry about shrinking margins, they worry about theft, they worry about things that stop them getting on with the job. And many of those problems can trace straight back to the IT that they've had built or they've kind of fudged their way through that wasn't really designed for how construction actually operates. So if you can genuinely name the software that they most likely use, just from your own research, whatever's dominant in their market and if you can talk fluently about supporting what all of the different challenges, the way that they have field teams using tablets, phones, you know, a head office network, the fact that people might move around different sites, that the workforce is going to go up and down. If you can talk about that stuff, then you will sound like someone who gets their world, rather than a generic MSP who's hoping to get a bit more business, which is really, really exciting. So before we move on to property, let's just sum up. Construction, highly complex, lots of people coming in and out, lots of movement, connectivity issues potentially. There's lots of opportunity there for an MSP that wants to deep dive themselves and demonstrate to the construction leaders, hey, we know your world, we know your wants, your needs, your hopes and your fears. And because we need that, we are the people to help you. And if there's no one doing that, no MSP specializing in that in your area or, you know, within like 50 to 100 miles for you, that could be a potentially big opportunity for you. So that's construction. Let's now flip over to a related sector, but it is completely different and that is property. So you might call it real estate, you might call it like here in the uk, we call them estate agents, whatever it is that you call them. And it's actually, again, it's, it's the whole chain. So it's estate agents or real estate agents who are selling properties. You've got letting agents who are renting out properties, you've got property management companies, you've got commercial property development firms. They're all sort of lumped into property. You can see actually these two sectors, they are massive. Just saying construction and property covers off so many different kinds of business. But even within property, each of those companies that I just listed, they have a different relationship with technology on a day to day basis. So again, you have to understand where they overlap and where they differ. And you have to look at the specific pain points in all of property. The biggest pain point is, of course, data. All of them are handling a huge amount of very sensitive data. It's a lot of data about people, tenant information, lease agreements, payment records, vendor contracts, sometimes the sensitive financial information which is tied to buying and selling. And that makes them a very attractive target for cybercriminals. We know that, don't we? Anytime there's really good data, someone's going to be looking for that data, especially if it's about people and financial transactions. And in fact, our research has shown that property management specifically is increasingly being named as a prime target for ransomware, phishing and data breaches. Property management companies also have an unusual technology footprint compared to most other office based businesses. And many of them are now managing building systems as well as business systems. So things like access control, security, cameras and building automation, which of course all sit on the same network as their day to day office technology. In fact, you and they may have a little bit of crossover there if you handle some of those systems. So that combination of business IT and physical building technology is pretty unique. And it's an area that a lot of generalist MSPs might not have thought about. Which again creates an opportunity for you if you wanted to deep dive and specialize in those kind of businesses. There is also a fast growing AI angle specific to this sector that's worth knowing about. Property firms are increasingly looking at AI for things like leasing, applicant screening, tenant communication, all of that kind of stuff. But of course that comes with a lot of regulatory sensitivity around housing and tenant data protection and that kind of stuff. If you can be the MSP who genuinely understands that nuance, rather than being an MSP that's just pushing copilot to them generically, then that gives you an opportunity to really differentiate yourself. So let's look at how to position yourself for the property sector. And it's all about messaging which they respond well to. And that messaging is stuff that relates to their world. Protecting client data, financial data, transaction security, you know, anything that will stop them from being breached or give them the highest levels of protection. Property management companies respond more to messaging around, you know, the combination of tenant data protection and the building systems angle. If you can be the one provider who talks confidently about their, their need to protect their office network and, and protect all of these systems that they're managing for other people, then that's going to tick a lot of boxes. And multi site portfolios are very common in property management. So if you can talk about consistent security and support across a growing number of locations, that is a genuine selling point for you. So what connects construction and property, despite their differences, is that they both tend to be based on either project or portfolio based outcomes. They very rarely are single sites and very Rarely static. You know, they're both high change, there's lots going on, there's lots of complexity, lots of flexibility needed. There's always something going on. They're either growing and adding or they're shrinking and taking away. And as we know IT benefits in both of those scenarios, These businesses within construction and property, they genuinely need an MSP who understands their world, who understands multi location support, who is set up for lots and lots of change, who knows how to handle data that creates regulatory and reputational risk if it's mishandled. And in both of those sectors, the incumbent IT support is often generalist, it's often under equipped, it doesn't understand their specific software, it doesn't understand their compliance pressures. That is a gap that you can fill if you do your work properly. You take the time to genuinely learn their world and give the kind of service to them that they would absolutely pay top dollar for. So I believe that construction and property are both large, growing and underserved from an IT perspective. So if you're willing to learn, and there's a lot to learn, but if you're willing to dive in, get to know some people within that industry, maybe take on one or two clients and really learn about their needs, their wants, their hopes and their fears, then you will stand out from every generalist MSP who's still pitching the same generic message and to everyone in those sectors. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Paul Greens MSP Marketing Podcast. [00:11:33] Speaker A: So that same principle I was just talking about, about being deliberate in the way you position yourself and how you look at something from their point of view rather than being generic, well, that applies to all of your marketing, whether you're going for a specific sector or whether you're just after general businesses in your local area. And I have a marketing map in the first form of a large wall planner that goes on your wall and it lays out all 36 marketing actions that you need to do in order to do this, and it lays them out in the order that you should do them. So instead of having to guess what you do next, you have a very clear considered plan. The same way that a specialist MSP has a clear considered approach to a sector like construction or property. So as I say, it's a large physical planner. I get printed and I post to you completely free at my own expense. There's no catch of any kind. It's just my way of you and me starting a business relationship. Maybe you'll buy something from us in the future, maybe you won't, but either way you can benefit from that Wall planner right now. To get it, go to mspwallplanner.com or you can scan the QR code on screen. If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're running your MSP as a one person band, I mean, you might have an assistant or someone helping on the help desk, but essentially it's you carrying the whole business. Then this bit right now is specifically for you. Because doing marketing feels almost impossible when there's only one of you and a hundred other things that are demanding your attention every single day. So let's talk about how you can get marketing done even if the business is just you. So here's what happens to almost every owner operator that I've ever spoken to. Marketing becomes the very last job on the list. It gets pushed to Friday afternoon when you're kind of exhausted, drained, and actually maybe even slightly mentally checked out for the weekend. And then, unsurprisingly, marketing doesn't happen properly or doesn't even happen at all. And I understand exactly why this happens. Because the client work is what feels urgent. Of course, you've got to do what the business is selling, right? Otherwise there is no business. And if the client work feels urgent, it must be done now. The marketing feels like it can wait. But the uncomfortable truth is marketing is the only thing that generates leads. And leads are the only thing that generate prospects. Prospects are the only thing that generate new clients. So if marketing keeps losing the fight for your time and your attention, eventually you're going to stop taking on new clients. Your business stops growing. And if your thought process on that is, it's okay, we'll just keep relying on referrals. Eventually referrals run out as well. You go ask any MSP who's been around for a few years and for everyone, the referrals eventually dry up. It's a natural part, part of the growth process, unfortunately. So what's the answer to this? Well, there's a reality check, right? You can't do all of your own marketing as a one person band and also brilliantly run the technical side of your business. Well, it is just not possible to do those two big tasks simultaneously long term. And the answer also isn't to somehow find more hours in your day, because you can't and you shouldn't. I give those as to your family or your life because you know, having a life is important as well. The answer, I believe, is to change your relationship with the work itself. And I call this doa. And I don't mean Dead on arrival. That's what you'll be if you keep trying to do everything yourself. Instead, you should delegate, outsource, Automate. So when we're talking here about your marketing, you retain the ownership and responsibility of your marketing. You're still the one steering the direction, and you're still the voice behind your own personal brand. You're still making all the big decisions, but the actual implementation gets spread across other people and tools wherever possible. Delegate, of course, means handing tasks to whoever you already have helping you, even if that is someone just doing Help Desk for a few hours a week. Could they schedule your LinkedIn posts from the content you've already written, or could they format your weekly email once you've dictated the content? Small tasks handed off free up real time for you. And you know, even if you're only hiring someone for three or four hours a week to handle Help Desk tickets, sometimes they'll have a little bit of a gap and they can take that time and go and do those little marketing jobs for you. So that's delegation. Outsourcing means going beyond your existing team to find specific freelance experts and upwork. The platform is really good for this because you don't need to hire anyone full time to do specific jobs like designing graphics or editing videos or building landing pages. You just need someone for two or three hours a month, paid per task, doing the specific thing that you're either not good at or you're not very fast at. Why would you do it yourself when you can hire someone else for a couple of hours to do it for you? And then, of course, the Final 1, the A Automate, it means using tools to do all the repetitive or mechanical parts of your marketing without you touching them at all, such as an automated email nurture sequence, which we talked about a few episodes back. That's a perfect example of that, because once it's built, it runs indefinitely without you having to lift a finger. So what should you do yourself and what should you hand off to other people? Well, I believe there are certain things that only you can do, and I want to be really clear about what those are, because trying to delegate them defeats the purpose of what we're trying to do here. For example, your personal brand cannot be outsourced and nobody else can be you on LinkedIn or filming videos or writing content. You know, no one else can share your genuine opinions. Again, we were talking about this a couple of episodes back. No one else can tell your stories. When you're talking about your origin story as a marketing asset, or the things that happen to you on a weekly basis, that has to come from you because it only works when it's authentically you. But just because you have to tell the story doesn't mean that, that you have to actually do the work right. Everything that's built around that core can be done by someone else. You can dictate your story and someone else can tidy it up. You can get someone else to load it into the platform, to schedule it, to format it, to proofread it, to check it, to do the graphic designs. Does that make sense? You are the one who gets the content out and then other people can actually do all the hard work of making that content presentable to the world. That's what I do with this podcast. I'm just, it's just me, you know, talking to it to a camera. And believe me, there's a lot of footage at the end of this podcast. And then Simon and James and Laura on the podcast team, they do everything else. I come up with the idea, I write the content, I deliver it and then they edit it, they check it, they load it, they write the marketing content around it, they do all of the hard work. It's a great DOA example where I've delegated the difficult jobs that I'm not very good at anyway because I don't have that attention to detail, but also I don't want to do. I've delegated that to, to them. So I just do and maintain the one thing that I'm really good at and also that I cannot delegate to anyone else, which is being the face of the business with genuine authentic content. Does that make sense? Now let's finish off by just talking about the advantage that you have of being a one person band, because I don't believe from a marketing point of view that it is a disadvantage. It can be a massive advantage. And the advantage is you can move fast, right? In a bigger msp, which might have lots of resources and lots of marketing people. They're actually really slow because the second you start having marketing people and a management team and an slt, you start getting things like sign off processes and run this by that person and do this and do that. Whereas you can have an idea at 9am and if you've got the spare time, the capacity, you can implement that at 9:30am, right? You don't have to wait for someone else's sign off before you do something. So that's the beautiful thing and why I enjoy working with smaller businesses is ideas get implemented. So Much more quickly. And if you're running everything through you as the owner of the MSP and as the face of the business, the personal brand, and you're being authentically you, then everything that you put out is going to have almost like a purity and a consistency to it. That's, that's so much harder to achieve in a bigger MSP where often the marketing feels a little bit disconnected from real people because it's been through so many hands and so many stages of approval and all that corporate nonsense that slows everything down. The business owner who is marketing solo, sharing real opinions, telling real stories and showing up consistently as themselves will often build trust faster than a much bigger MSP with a big marketing department but no clear personality at the front of their marketing. So if you are genuinely stretched to your absolute limit, here is where to focus yourself. First, I would say just start with 60 minutes a day, ideally in the morning, in fact, maybe even first thing in the morning before you start doing technical work. And the reason for that is, trust me, that's when your energy is at the highest, right? You might be a 3am person and feel that you're most productive at 3am, but I'll be honest and don't, don't beat me up for this. It's a bit of a fallacy, right? When we're on a 3am thing, we're running on a, on a high or on coffee or Red Bull or whatever and we're in a kind of a frenzy of getting things done. But it's not naturally a high energy time for us. The vast majority of us, we've got the most energy and the most creativity early in the morning. And it doesn't have to be stupid early. It could just be 8am before you start doing tech work at 9am if you can find 60 Minutes every weekday to work on your business and on your marketing, that is going to give you a massive advantage over all of your competitors. Especially if you use the principle of DOA and you hand a lot of the work over to other people. You just do what only you can do and you can get other people to do all the little things around it to make that happen. So being a one person band is not a reason not to do marketing. It's an excuse if you allow yourself to get in the way. But if you want to grow your business, get more contracts, get more clients so you can get more staff and not be a one person band, which many people do, not everyone, but many people do. The only way you can do that is to get good at your marketing. And the fact is, you've got to get smarter about how you actually implement the marketing, keep ownership of the parts that make you you, and delegate, outsource and automate everything else. [00:21:51] Speaker B: The Ms. MSP Marketing Edge Member Update [00:21:56] Speaker A: if you're an MSP Marketing Edge member, good news. New content is landing in your portal today because we release new content on the 10th of every single month. And of course this episode is going out on the 10th of the month as well. So what's new this month? If you go to the portal and log in, you'll find all of your new content ready to implement straight away. So You've got new LinkedIn content, including posts, images, videos, carousels and infographics so you can post every single day this month. There's also a new blog and a new video to go on your website every single week. They're all ready to publish and you can publish them in one go, even though they go out weekly. There's a fresh email to send every week to your prospect list. There's also a brand new marketing campaign which is specifically built to target your hottest prospects. And all of this content comes with clear step by step instructions so you know exactly what to do with it. And you can hand it straight to your team or a virtual assistant or my done for you team. Because in the spirit of doa, you should not be implementing this stuff yourself. And if you're not yet a member of the MSP Marketing Edge, we have two separate memberships. There's B2B which helps you to win more business owners as clients. And then there's Co Managed which helps you to win IT directors as clients. And each of those is only available to one MSP per area. Check if yours is available right now@msp marketingedge.com membership [00:23:21] Speaker B: Paul Greens MSP Marketing Podcast [00:23:26] Speaker A: so I know that as an msp, a large part of what you do is protecting your clients from themselves because sometimes they just don't listen to your suggestions, do they? They don't take all of the cybersecurity advice that you give them and they don't buy all of the services that they really need to buy. And of course the reason for this is that they are a lot less aware of how smart cybercriminals are compared to you. Would you agree with that? Well, my special guest today is going to reveal the psychology of why your clients are so susceptible to cybercriminals and and what you can do about it. [00:24:00] Speaker C: I am Robert Siciliano, CEO of Protect Now LLC I am a security awareness trainer [00:24:07] Speaker A: and it's so cool to have you on the show. Robert, thank you so much. Because you are going to help us explore today why human nature makes life so difficult for MSPs. We're talking about cybersecurity, why people do dumb things and why they do them again and again and again. And then you're, I know you're going to give MSPS listening and watching this some really helpful advice to help them them protect the clients they are being paid to protect, sometimes to protect them from themselves. So tell us what it is that you do. And obviously you know a lot about cybersecurity. How have you come to be in this position? [00:24:39] Speaker C: So I've been teaching security awareness for over 30 years since security. Security awareness training was physical security. You know, violence in theft, prevention in the physical world. I've been doing that since 1995. And in the past, what, 10, 15 years. Companies that provide phishing simulation training now call security awareness training. You know, just that. But phishing simulation training isn't actually security awareness training. It's just phishing simulation training. And if you want to truly inform and educate and empower the employee on security, you need to provide them true security awareness training. So they begin to drink the Kool Aid, so to speak, of security. [00:25:25] Speaker A: But am I right in saying that these people don't want security training? [00:25:29] Speaker C: Security fundamentally goes against the human's core belief systems. And that sounds odd, but it's actually really true. So humans possess what I call the human blind spot. And the human blind spot is our biological and psychological want and need to trust each other as an interdependent species, which is what we are as humans. We depend on each other for our survival. Man needs woman, woman needs man essentially to procreate. Without that, the species would diminish to nothing. Right? That being said, we want and need to trust each other. And so we give the benefit of the doubt all day, every day to the people that we come in contact with in the physical and virtual world. Every phone call, email, text message, you want to believe the person you are communicating with has your best interest in mind and doesn't mean to harm or hurt you. [00:26:22] Speaker A: So essentially, MSPs are kind of fighting against human nature and how most people believe and the trusting nature that most people are. Is this is why, is this why it's so easy for breaches to happen and for, you know, even sophisticated businesses with protection to slip up something as simple as reusing a password? [00:26:41] Speaker C: Exactly. Paul, you know, look it, we are still at between 2500 and 3500 data breaches every single year. Okay? The stats right now are we are at about 300 billion with a B of our records compromised on the dark web, so to speak. About 20 to 25 billion of those records are passwords. So as we know, you know, as necessary as MSPs are and the security in which they provide, we are essentially still dealing with human nature as the biggest risk and vulnerability. Some of the stats I see are somewhere between about 75% of vulnerabilities or flaws are as a result of human error. Because when I get in front of a live audience, one of the most common questions that people ask me when it comes to security is how do I know what links are okay to click when I do a Google search? Like that's where most people are at. And I asked the same questions like, and you already know the answers to these, for example, like how many of you are using the same passcode across multiple accounts? And generally it's like 90% are still using the same passcode, which tells us that security isn't a priority for anybody. And so my job is to change the security culture. So they see security as a good thing, whereas most people currently don't. Let me ask you a question, Paul. So I'm in front of a live audience and I tell them I'm a guy that has 20 plus security cameras, which is actually true. Okay, now maybe a little excessive, but when they hear, okay, this guy's got 20 plus security cameras, I say to them, I go, what do you think is my disposition, my belief systems? Like, I wake up every day with 20 plus security cameras. That makes me. What, what does that make me? What do you, what do you think? They say, [00:28:30] Speaker A: well, they, I guess they either say, you've got a massive house, or they say, that makes you a cautious person, so. Or a fit of someone who's fearful. [00:28:38] Speaker C: Fearful, right, fearful. And they often say, oh, you're paranoid. We have a very unhealthy view of a relationship to security. Because most people, when they look at managing risk, when they look at security in general, when they look at 20 security cameras, he must live in fear. He must be paranoid. And then I say to them, okay, so how many of you have a home security system? If I get 15% of the room to raise their hand, that's a lot. Which means 85% don't have a home security system. And I say, okay, so why don't you have a Home security system. You know what they say to me? I don't have a home security system because I don't want to live like that. I don't want to live in fear. I don't want to have to worry all the time. We look at security as worry and fear and paranoia because over the course of our lives, that's what we've been sold, so to speak. That's the cultural norm. And you can't change the cultural norm. But what you can do is you can ask a number of different challenging questions to your audience, to your clients to get them to see security for what it actually is and actually, you know, prove what it actually isn't. And when they see security as being paranoia, worry and fear, there's no way that the employee is going to adopt security. Frankly, when it comes to security awareness training today, phishing simulation, what they want to do is beat the lms. They want to get through it as quickly as possible because they don't even believe that security is even part of their job. Responsibility, my job. And in the MSP too, you can change the security culture by asking challenging questions. And that gets them to decide. It gets them to choose what's right for them. And you do that by making all security personal. [00:30:28] Speaker A: So give us an example of some of those questions that you'd ask. [00:30:31] Speaker C: So we go over like the, you know, how many of you are using a different passcode across multiple accounts? How many of you are using two factor authentication? How many of you have a home security system, Heck, how many of you lock your doors? And once they begin to see, like the statistics revolving around passwords and 24 billion passwords in the dark web and 300 billion records compromised. And they begin to see, like in the U.S. for example, we have between 1.5 and 2 million burglaries every single year in the U.S. which means in the next 10 years, that's between 15 and 20 million burglaries. Right? That's significant. And when they see how silly it is that they don't lock their own doors, they're like. And you point out how security is not about paranoia, which is a mental health disease, they start to say, oh, okay, so this is beginning to make sense to me. And by making security personal to them, you talk about managing passwords in their personal life. You talk about setting two factor up in their personal life. First you talk about teaching their kids to protect their digital footprint. Now you're making it about them. Because employees, first and foremost, their concern is about them and their own personal security and their own bank accounts and their child's digital footprint, their own money. And when you make security personal to them, it really resonates with them. I'll ask you a quick question, Paul, because I'm sure you travel as much as I do. You're on the airplane and the flight attendant is providing safety instructions, and he or she says, okay, when the oxygen mask comes down, Paul, what are we supposed to do first? [00:32:09] Speaker A: Put it on ourselves first. [00:32:11] Speaker C: And why is that? [00:32:13] Speaker A: So that we can keep breathing and then we can help the people next to us. I thought I was supposed to ask the questions in this podcast, but it seems to have flipped around the other way. [00:32:19] Speaker C: But. Right. Doesn't that make sense? When it comes to all security, you've got to take care of yourself first. [00:32:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So is this the same, Is this the same thing as. About 25 years ago, I was burgled living in a. In a street in Nottingham in the uk, which you'll know as Robin Hood country. And, and within like three, three, four weeks, burglar alarms started appearing on other houses nearby because word had spread that we were burglarized. Right. So essentially you're saying you need to ask the kind of questions to the people that you're talking to that makes them realize this is personal. This is, this is not just a big, big, you know, big hacking groups going off to big businesses. This, this is very much a personal thing. [00:33:00] Speaker C: I think we're done here. Yeah, exactly. And so when the MSP flips security awareness training on its head and they begin to ask the right questions, you get the user, the employee, the people on the front lines to make those decisions for themselves. Whereas right now, what we're doing with security awareness training is we're beating them over the head with a hammer. We're saying, do this, don't do that, or else. Or else is you get fired. And so when you make it about them, when you make it personal to them, they begin to look at security very differently. When you take the fear and the worry out of it, when you make it practical, when you show them the benefits of it, when you make it personal to them, they want more security in their life. They just don't know it yet. [00:33:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I love that. So how do you recommend MSPs actually do that? Because obviously a lot of MSPs don't do their own training. Sure, they'll talk with their clients and consult with them, but in terms of the staff, they'll. They'll typically buy Something in and, or, you know, as you say, do sort of phishing simulation. Is there, is there a specific tool set you recommend? Is it, is it a different approach? What do you recommend for msps? [00:34:11] Speaker C: It's about positioning. So whoever their contact is, you know, the cio, cto, CISO and so forth, like every single organization has people in it that obviously are responsible for the budget, they're responsible for the bottom line, they're responsible for the security. And all those same people have people in their own personal lives that can't stop clicking links, they can't stop responding to phone calls, they can't stop getting hooked by phishing emails. Like we all have those same people in our lives and when those same people, when the MSP talks to those same people and say, listen, like I've my mom, the MSP says my mom can't stop clicking links, my dad can't stop responding to phishing emails and so forth. Right. And so explain to them you have employees and maybe even people in your own life that are the exact same way. And what we want to do before we provide phishing simulation training is let's have an all hands on event, even whether it's in person or it's virtual, which I do both. And you can do both. Right. You essentially are making the initial rollout of security awareness about the employee first, so that when they actually take the phishing simulation training now it begins to make sense to them. Now the security infrastructure that the employee themselves are relatively responsible for not messing up that 76%. Now they have a better understanding of what their role and responsibility is in protecting the organization as it begins with themselves. And you roll it out professionally. So it's a conversation that you have with the decision makers that ultimately like shows that you are providing so much more value to them, which is ultimately what you want to do. And so when you're providing that much more value, they see that you actually care about the security of the organization more. So just in metrics, you really truly and you should care about the actual security of the individuals that are responsible for the networks. [00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah, very interesting, very interesting, Robert, just finish off by telling us what do you do to help MSPS with this? So you mentioned virtual training. Do you, do you go and do training for msps? Do you have a program that you sell? So what do you do and how can we get in touch with you? [00:36:29] Speaker C: Yeah, so I do live trainings in person and virtually like I just did a presentation not too long ago in front of 200 people that was broadcast to 4,000 worldwide. Okay, so scaling is easy, right? And I speak to what I call the strategic human firewall. And the strategic human firewall is like you and I, every single time we get a phone call, email, text message, we're looking for what's wrong with this? What's the motivation behind it? What's the manufactured urgency where they're trying to get me to click? And the idea is to get every single person involved to become a strategic human firewall. And that's what I do, right? I help them to overcome what I call the human blind spot, which is our innate want in need biologically and psychologically to trust each other. And when we understand the human blind spot and we become the strategic human firewall, now we are ready and armed. Forewarned is forearmed to, to manage risk in our personal and professional lives. I do this virtually in person. I can be [email protected] again, that's protectnow llc.com or just go to my LinkedIn search, Robert Siciliano. I give it away for free every couple of weeks in my newsletter that has like tens of thousands of subscribers [00:37:42] Speaker B: coming up. Coming up next week. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Thanks for listening or watching this week. Next week we've got a really good one. I've been talking to a bunch of MSPs who are making a ton of money right now from AI. And next week we're going to reveal exactly what they're doing and how you too can make more money by selling AI to your existing clients. See you then [00:38:03] Speaker B: for MSPs around the world. Around the World, the MSP Marketing podcast with Paul Green.